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Old 11-10-2018, 07:16 PM   #1
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Water heater - tankless?

My water heater in an older motorhome develped a leak near the water heater which is gas with an electric heating rod.


I rarely use gas as the RV stays in one spot most of time connected to a 30 amp 110/120 service.


I haven't yet removed the current leaking 6gal RV water heater to see where the leak is. Water was leaking outdoors directly under the water heat so I suspect it's a connection near or on the water heater.


After pulling the current gas water heater that's leaking, I've been thinking of adding a tankless water heater if my current water heater is ok or replacing with a tankless.


One person lives in the motorhome year around and needs hot water for only for washing dishes, hands in sink and taking showers when needed. On a day to day basis he uses very little hot water as there is no washer or dryer in the RV.


I don't really want to spend $500.00 for a RV tankless replacement such as an Atwood, and have been looking at several Marey water heaters that run on 110. From what I've read tankless water heater such as the Marey PP110 which is a 10 to 40 amp water heater depending on it's power setting.



Power setting 1 - 10 amps, Power setting 2 - 20 amps, power setting 3 - 30 amp and power setting 4 - 40 amps.


So with a 30 amp service should be able to go to power setting 3 provided there weren't too many other high amp appliances and/or heaters running at the same time. Because of the climate A/C is rarely if ever used.



I've looked at some of the Chinese heaters online starting at $50.00 however I'm not certain of their reliability and if their even worth $50.00.


Marey has been around since 1955 and have read make fairly decent and reliable water heaters costwise.


I'm not certain how accurate but read connected to a 30 amp breaker you probably will only be able to get a 20 to 25 deg F hot water rise. So cold water temps would need to be at 60 deg. to get 85 degs hot water.



Anyway I think if I don't add a tankless water heater I'll mostly likely add a 20-30 gallon home type water heater as I can create some additional space to install it, and keep the 6 gallon gas water heater connected in case there's no electric.
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Old 11-10-2018, 08:08 PM   #2
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At only 3600 watts and having to heat the water 30 to 25 degrees, as it moves through the coil, thinking the flow would have be very slow to maintain a constant temp. Probably work fine for dishes and washing hands.
Most propane rv tankless heaters are over 40000 btu which is 12000 watts for an electric heater. Think for your situation, a tank that allows some time to heat 6 gallons before use would be the best solution.
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Old 11-11-2018, 12:50 AM   #3
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I think you're right. Tankless water heaters for RVs are usually gas as there's no 220 in RV parks. Home tankless normally run from 220 VAC.

At 110/120 VAC it becomes more difficult to heat water.

I found a 110 Vac from Home Depot (manufacture by Bosch) that describes the use as "one sink at a time". Which would be ok for one person, who would use a shower, wash dishes, wash hands separately.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-Tr...0685/300847973

I think something like this tankless water heater would work if it lasted a long time.


It's warranty is limited 5-year warranty on the heating element and 1-year limited warranty on other components.

From what I understand it's outsouced and made in China, some people have complained it quit working and wasn't covered by a warranty.

But this is typical of most appliances these days, many are poor quality and have 1 year warranties.

I can remember my Cold Spot frig I use to have. Manufactured in the 50s was still running well keeping food cold and frozen after more than 50 years.


Wasn't frost free but kept working for many years without any problems.
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Old 11-11-2018, 01:54 AM   #4
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If you have a 50 amp outlet avalable to you, that will handle your 240 volt heater.

50 amp outlets are 240 volts.
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Old 11-11-2018, 08:01 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andonso View Post
I think you're right. Tankless water heaters for RVs are usually gas as there's no 220 in RV parks. Home tankless normally run from 220 VAC.

At 110/120 VAC it becomes more difficult to heat water.

I found a 110 Vac from Home Depot (manufacture by Bosch) that describes the use as "one sink at a time". Which would be ok for one person, who would use a shower, wash dishes, wash hands separately.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-Tr...0685/300847973

I think something like this tankless water heater would work if it lasted a long time.


It's warranty is limited 5-year warranty on the heating element and 1-year limited warranty on other components.

From what I understand it's outsouced and made in China, some people have complained it quit working and wasn't covered by a warranty.

But this is typical of most appliances these days, many are poor quality and have 1 year warranties.

I can remember my Cold Spot frig I use to have. Manufactured in the 50s was still running well keeping food cold and frozen after more than 50 years.


Wasn't frost free but kept working for many years without any problems.
Think you need to understand that to maintain a constant temp for a shower for example, the water must be in contact with a hot surface for a enough time to bring it up to temp. Big electric and gas tankless water heaters can do that in the very short time and small amount of tubing because of the amount of heat they produce. I have an aquahot in my coach now "50000 btu endless hot water" true to a point, If the water coming in is 50 f. and I want to have a 100 f. shower, I will need to cut the flow down considerably to allow time for the water to gain the heat in the heat exchanger. This is with a 14500, not a 3000 watt heating source.
Standard water heaters work better in many cases because they have time between water usage to heat up a big batch of water to a higher temp and then you mix with cooler water for your shower. Tankless heaters must heat the water seconds before use, which is why they need great amounts of power.
They are often more fuel efficient that tank heaters because they do not have to keep water hot all the time. What some people do is turn their hot water heater an hour before showering, dishes, etc and turn it off after.
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Old 11-11-2018, 10:05 AM   #6
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I need to remove the water heater from the outside to inspect and find out where it's leaking. Possibly the tank or one of the connections to the tank is leaking.

It's a gas water heater but the lp is disconnected from the RV and there's an aftermarket 400 watt element installed to heat the water, that plugs into a 110 outlet. I'm not certain if the electrode (rod) has any sort of thermostat or not.

The RV Park only has 30 amp service. I don't see the new owners adding 50 amp service anytime soon.

I need to first pull the tank to determine the cause of the leak. It's an older water heater, needs either to be repaired or replaced.

Looking online at 6 gallon rv water heaters . On eBay I see gas, gas electric and electric with and without the control board.

And then there are some that are tank only

I'm not certain if the existing water heater can be repaired or not.

If needs to be replaced I may go with one that has electric (~1500 watts) or find a gas and install the 400 watt rod, and only use elect. most of the time.

Cost on eBay for new 6 gallon rv water heaters start around $250.00, some are store returns where people ordered the incorrect water heater, of which some they didn't return the control board.

So there's units with and without the control board.

There are also what are point of use mini tank water heaters that come with a 6 gallon tank. Heated water takes approx. 30 mins. to recover. So it would be similar to a 6 gallon RV water heater where you need to turn on and off the hot water while taking a shower. And normally not enough hot water to clean all of the dishes. Water heater, refrigerators, stoves, etc. in RV are designed for travel and not daily use. Stoves and frigs are too small. Absorption frigs run on gas are good for travel but inefficient and many are too small in capacity. I'm replacing my 6.7 cu. foot Norcold with an 10.7 cu foot Whirlpool that uses a compressor and is frost free.

Absorption frig are good for either travel as the run on gas or for industries that have free waste heat.

There also good for boon docking. I've boon docked in the Pacific NW mountains for up to three months at a time and there's usually not enough sunlight for solar. If you can keep your batteries charged enough to supply 12 volts to the rv frigs controls and fan then everything is ok. Without enough sunlight and solar that usually means running the genny for at least 2 hours each day, sometimes more such as ~8+ hours if the batteries become drained under 50 percent capacity. It can take a while to bring drained batteries back.
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Old 11-11-2018, 03:59 PM   #7
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Leak in tank

Turned out to be a leak in the tank. Looks ok from outside can't really tell where the hole is. Removed the water heater reconnected, tighten down using some plumbers pipe sealant. After water turned on water came gushing out from what appeared to be a small hole in tank.
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Old 11-11-2018, 05:09 PM   #8
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I'm looking at different options to replace the non repair able 6 gallon RV water heater, that uses an electric element rod with thermostat.

I've been looking at standard RV 6 gallon water heaters, which should be the most reliable and last a long time.

Since I'm on a 30 amp 110/120 service tankless options for 110 VAC aren't all that good I think the tankless water heater to put out some hot water require a high amp 110 service or a 220 service.

There are point of use water heaters that have 6 or 7 gallon tanks. I'm told may take around 30 mins to recover.

Should be good enough for one person only needing hot water to wash dishes and take showers.

e.g.

Bosch, 7 Gal. Electric Point-of-Use Water Heater

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-7-...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

Eccotemp 7 gal mini tank water heater.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eccotemp...-302962987-_-N
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Old 11-11-2018, 08:18 PM   #9
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Searching around for RV water heaters on eBay I'm finding replacement 6 gallon tanks. Haven't found any 10 gallon.

I'm wondering if I'm not using the water heaters gas or electric, if I can install a replacement tank with an element rod and thermostat without any of the the electronics and control board?

It would be two water lines (in and out,), relief valve, a 400 watt element rod with thermostat that threads into lower tank outlet. Possibly mount the tank to where my previous tank was mounted without any gas or electronics.

The 400 watt element rod with thermostat plugs in an 110 VAC outlet.

AC outlet === thermostat === element rod/tank
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Old 11-11-2018, 11:01 PM   #10
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steel or aluminum tank?

Another question.


After looking around I see many RV water heaters are steel tanks and porcelain lined.


However I seem to remember seeing one that has an aluminum tank.


What would be preferred aluminum or steel porcelain lined?
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Old 11-11-2018, 11:13 PM   #11
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[QUOTE=andonso;4495223]Another question.


After looking around I see many RV water heaters are steel tanks and porcelain lined.


However I seem to remember seeing one that has an aluminum tank.


What would be preferred aluminum or steel porcelain lined?[/QUOTE

There are two main manufacturers of RV water heaters; Atwood, which has the aluminum tanks and Suburban, which has the porcelain lined steel tanks. The major difference is that the Suburban requires the use of a sacrificial anode rod to prevent the interior of the tank from being eaten awa yfrom electrolysis; this anode has to be replaced yearly, or you will develop holes in the tank eventually; possibly what ruined yours.

I would always choose the Atwood, given a choice.

A 6 gallon gas water heater will give you enough hot water for a quick shower or a small sink of dishes after being turned on for only 15-30 minutes. We never left ours lit continuously to save propane; always turned it on and off as necessary.
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Old 11-11-2018, 11:32 PM   #12
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The water heater pulled is an Atwood G6A-7E. It's an older one likely the original installed by Fleetwood.

The leak appears to be a pin hole leak as when I cleaned up the water connections adding some plumber sealant, turned the water back gushed out at high pressure from a very small area on the side of the tank.

I couldn't find the pin hole but didn't keep looking so it's probably there somewhere.

I'm thinking of either replacing the tank or finding anther water heater.

I've found several including a 10 gallon gas electric but all have been porcelain lined steel tanks.

I remember seeing one with an alum. tank but can't remember exactly where I saw it.

I haven't been using gas. My gas oven has been removed and replaced with a microwave convection oven. and I recently purchased a new electric compressor frig that's bigger than the rv frig and frost free.

I'm connected to Pud 24/7 and haven't been traveling in this RV so I don't see any need to have a gas water heater. Atwood replacement tanks are nearly as much as an entire water heater.

I'm thinking of picking up a replacement steel porcelain tank for around 130-140 dollars or a point of use water heater with a 6-7 gallon tank.
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Old 11-12-2018, 07:31 AM   #13
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I'm wondering if I'm not using the water heaters gas or electric, if I can install a replacement tank with an element rod and thermostat without any of the the electronics and control board?




YES


This is exactly what I did. Mine is a new Atwood that does not require a anode rod. i removed the plug, ordered a replacment element for the Camco hot rod kit. then went to Lowes and got a lower thermostat for a regular house water heater. (upper thermostat will do but is twice the cost). I put it on it's own breaker and added an inline switch under the seat beside the w/h. Did it all for about $38. Now I have a gas/electric water heater.


The thermostat just needs to be in contact with the tank surface. I picked a spot, cut away the styrofoam, and then taped it down where it will never move. The lower thermostat will only have two screws. Just put it inline with the power wire going to the element. Used it this weekend and it worked perfect. never opened the propane valve.


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Camco-116...hoClN0QAvD_BwE


https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-W...mostat/3693208


Just use any switch properly rated and whatever breaker is required for your rv panel
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Old 11-12-2018, 11:16 PM   #14
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I already have an aftermarket 400 watt rod element and thermostat.

However some of the 6 and 10 gallon water heaters come with 1400, 1500 watt heating elements.

There usually installed in the drain port unless the water heater has some sort of port for a heating element.

I've used 6 gallon rv water heaters with a ~400 watt element and I was able to take short 5 min. shows and wash a light load of dishes.

I'm uncertain when compared to a ~400 watt heating element what effect a 1400-1500 watt heating element would have on a 6 gallon tank, other than the decreasing recovery time?

Your still only going to have 6 gallons of hot water (at what ever temp the thermostat is set to).

Below is a link to a Atwood (92249) 1400 watt element that fits my Atwood G6A-7E 6 gallon water heater.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ATWOOD-...fjoX:rk:1:pf:0

I found some others (~1500 watts) made by Camco for less, (around ~$8.00) but don't know if they fit my 6 gallon tank. Specs shows Minimum tank diameter 9"

Which must an inside tank dimension? I'll probably need to measure the inside of the tank through it's drain valve.

Also don't know if the screw-in is the same as the Atwood's tank drain port.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Camco-02142...pzti:rk:2:pf:0
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