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Old 11-28-2018, 06:15 PM   #1
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Will an ARP unit make a Norcold safe from fire?

Hi,

I have seen mentions of ARP units and it is on my must research list for this winter.

The thread on the Camelot catching fire has sprung me in to action.

Can an ARP unit make a Norcold safe from fire? I did check with Norcold and my model 1211 has had the recall performed.

Thanks,
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:58 PM   #2
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The APR Unit is a real time monitoring/control device

It monitors fridge perk tube temps in real time and will shut down the DC (shutting down fridge operations) if boiler temps go high enough to cause an 'overheating' condition.
When temps drop back into the normal range the unit will then allow DC and fridge goes back into full operations.


Norcold Recall is a high-high temp trip device.
If 700*F is sensed the snap-disc on perk tube Opens shutting down all DC (fridge functions stop).....no auto reset.
Technically a Norcold Authorized Service is to be preformed....inspection/testing etc before resetting (strong magnet resets it)



The APR Unit temp set point is much lower then the Norcold Trip point......much much lower and does return fridge functions when temps cool down.
But not sure at what temp it uses for set point......I think it is under 300*F




Stop fridge fire..........not it's purpose
Fridge fires are result of several causes:
*Electrical fires
*Cooling Unit leaks....ammonia/hydrogen spraying out under 300psi
*Faulty RV MFG installation

*Owners lack of routine maintenance ....cleaning, maintaining ventilation etc


The APR is a well designed unit for monitoring/controlling 'overheating' conditions which can cause cooling unit blockages/obstructions but it is monitoring boiler section temps....not fridge compartment air temps
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:44 PM   #3
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The ARP fridge defend add on box when properly installed will shut down the refrigerator's heat source whenever it senses abnormal heat in the tubing above the heater (either propane or electric) preventing abnormal conditions from ever happening that cause the refrigerator tubing to fail creating the conditions that can cause a fire. If the refrigerator is working properly when you install the box it will reduce chances of a fire.

Will it take your risk to zero? No.
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:17 AM   #4
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I’ve been doing a lot of reading on the Norcold fridges and ARP recently, and my take-aways are below. This is probably longer than it needs to be, but a valid criticism of me is that I talk too much. As none of this is from personal experience and is all from just perusing multiple web sources, I’m sure there is plenty to debate. This is just the side of the coin I came down on.
1. RV Absorption type fridge are at increased risk of fire due to combination of flammable gasses used in the closed system, and an open flame present if the closed system springs a leak. (+ other contributing factors, like vibration and ventilation impediments)
2. Absorption fridge requires it to be level for the closed system of pipes and reservoirs to work properly. Too much of a tilt in the wrong direction and it will impede the ability of the gasses to complete their cycle through the cooling fins, which results in much higher internal pressure and temperature compared to optimal function.
3. Norcold fridge pipe system is not particularly robust, and repeated cycles of #2 can lead to eventual failure and possibly fire.
4. There is an after-market direct replacement for the OEM pipes (the “Amish” pipes) which are reportedly more robust than OEM (preventing possible failure down the road but also providing better cooling under normal use.) They can be expensive, running $700-1200ish depending on your model.
5. ARP, as stated by others already, will prevent an abnormal condition from getting too out of hand. This will mean the fridge is not subjected to potentially repeated and severe ‘out-of-spec’ temp swings, and might keep a stress failure from happening down the road.
6. If you typically use hookups or are a boondocker with a substantial battery/solar system, then you can sidestep all this mess by installing an energy efficient household compressor fridge and forget the whole ordeal.
7. If you only run the RV fridge when it is level (so not when driving,) then you won’t experience #2
8. If you inspect regularly and keep your back and roof vents open and free from debris, then you’ll prevent heat buildup and ‘out-of-spec’ heat stressors or “vent fires.”
Personal conclusion: Neither my current setup nor my normal rig use will support a residential fridge, so I’m always going to run the fridge level, turn it off while driving, inspect the vents regularly, keep a fire extinguisher handy, and call it a day. I’ll add ‘buy and install ARP’ to my list of to-do’s, but I’ll be surprised if I actually ever make it happen. If I end up on the evening news, y’all can tell my family to engrave “I was just about to get to that....” on my tombstone.
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Old 11-29-2018, 05:20 AM   #5
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Thanks all,

I don't dry camp a lot but do use the propane a lot as my storage bay does not have power.

My battery bank is 440ah but only have a 600msw inverter.

I do level best can.
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Old 11-29-2018, 05:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickstand View Post
7. If you only run the RV fridge when it is level (so not when driving,) then you won’t experience #2

I don’t believe the fridge is affected while driving because the constant motion, rocking, etc overcomes any resistance of the gasses/liquids to flow due to being out of level. It is when the fridge is constantly un-level that is the problem.
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Old 11-29-2018, 06:38 AM   #7
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Thanks all,

I don't dry camp a lot but do use the propane a lot as my storage bay does not have power.

My battery bank is 440ah but only have a 600msw inverter.

I do level best can.
I do use it while driving. Fridge is 10 years old.

Changing to a residential is not on the cards for now.
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:08 AM   #8
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Agree on ok to drive w/ fridge on worked at RV dealer for 10 yrs
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:32 AM   #9
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Norcold created the recall box to prevent a fire due to a specific catastrophic failure they discovered was happening in due to the design of certain models of Norcold fridges. Their AC heater / solution boiler design was causing a stress crack to form in their boiler after many AC heating cycles. Their recall box only triggers after the crack opens and solution/gas has escaped, destroying the cooling unit and creating the fire hazard.

ARP vs Norcold Recall
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:36 AM   #10
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Thanks,

I will check that link out this evening.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasdad1 View Post
I don’t believe the fridge is affected while driving because the constant motion, rocking, etc overcomes any resistance of the gasses/liquids to flow due to being out of level. It is when the fridge is constantly un-level that is the problem.

That has always been the consensus...operation while in transit is OK.


And under 'normal' conditions that is true.
Coolant solution continues to flow due to the motion of the vehicle/trailer.


The APR Device has shown that under some conditions the boiler temps can rise to high enough temps to cause thermal stress/metal fatigue due to the coolant solution Not flowing as designed.
This can occur when climbing/descending LONG grades.
The steeper and longer the grade the quicker the temps can increase


So YES temps can rise while in transit if you are traversing a LONG STEEP GRADE.....over 9-10 minutes time




Still going to continue running my 12 yr Dometic when we go camping ---to/from/while there etc
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:38 PM   #12
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Thanks old Biscuit,

No real big grades around here.
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Old 11-29-2018, 08:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
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That has always been the consensus...operation while in transit is OK.
...
So YES temps can rise while in transit if you are traversing a LONG STEEP GRADE.....over 9-10 minutes time

All that jives with what I’ve read. Given that I’m often driving enough of those grades here in NorCal, I’ll stick with not using in transit. I don’t find it much of an imposition. My mostly weekend warrior status means I’m often just living out of my Yeti anyway.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:02 AM   #14
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I must remember to turn mine off if on steep grades also.
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