1 megawatt solar power

[Reed Cundiff]

Someone who is unfond of solar whiffed about backpacking with tent. 51 years ago four friends and I would go on eco-tours for three to five days without tent or poncho. Food and clothes were free as was helicopter transportation to and from the walks. Now at 77, my wife and I prefer an RV with solar and LFP

We have boondocked with solar in:
British Columbia, Alberta, Yukon, Ontario, Quebec, and Labrador/Newfoundland

Most US states

Most states in Mexico

Belize and Guatemala

We have run into many Overlanders who boondock with solar who have traveled through more countries than we have states and provinces m. A number we know have traversed every continent except Antarctica

Fully agree with 757Driver. Trolls should go elsewhere and annoy someone else

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by McRod

Today I rolled over 1 megawatt hours of solar power generation with my small setup (~1000w) on my 5th Wheel. Thats over a 15 month period.

I can't believe 1000 watts of solar is considered small. Back in 2004, we installed 700 watts of panels, and a year later added more for a total of 1,050 watts, and people thought we were crazy for having that much.

Of course, considering the prices of panels in those days, it was kind of crazy. For a good while, our solar panels were the only appreciating asset we owned.

Originally Posted by McRod

We save much more just by choosing non-electric sites if offered (with good solar). Where we are now there is a $15/day difference between electric site and non-electric. In 9 days we save ~$126.

But someone using a generator could reap the same savings on the site cost. Of course there's the ongoing cost of fuel for the generator, which shouldn't be ignored, but it's not as if a generator user can't also save money by using a non-electric site.

I think a more accurate comparison would be how much it would cost to run a generator vs. your zero cost to "run" solar, and the difference would be your "savings." But that doesn't take into account any of the upfront costs at all, so even that's not a great comparison.

But there are other "costs," as well. For example, if you're boondocking on solar, I assume you're using propane for your refrigerator (if it's absorption) and for heating your water. The cost of that should come out of your "savings," however it's calculated.

The generator boondocker will also use propane for the refrigerator, but it will be less if the refrigerator switches to electric when the generator's on, so in that respect, the generator saves money over the solar, and that should be accounted for.

Also, the generator user would be able to put the water heater on electric when the generator's running, and that could completely eliminate propane use for hot water, while the solar user should account for that propane when calculating "savings."

Don't get me wrong--I'm a big proponent of solar (obviously, considering how much I spent on it) and really do wish everyone within earshot of me was the same. But to say a solar user saves $15 on the non-electric sites is nowhere near the whole story.

Now, as for saving money by choosing a non-electric site, I'm not sure I would do that because even though I wouldn't be using a generator, I would assume that others around me would be, and I'd pay $15 not to have to listen to them. That seems grossly unfair to a quiet solar user like me, but unfortunately, it's just how it is.

[beach house]

Originally Posted by followingsea

Beach House, what do you do for a living?
What I or you do for a living is irrelevant in this discussion.
How cold winter nights shifts have you worked keeping the lights on for your customers?
Even though I am always thankful to the people who provide various services including, line men, this has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of solar for RV application. And it is lame to try to pull that card. The fact is YOU chose this line of work, that you got a fare wage for. No one forced you to do this job, and I'm sure you had enough perception to realize that harsh weather was part of the package. And don't forget who payed your wages, it is a two way street. Lame indeed...

In the US, power companies are a regulated public service. We operated for the benefit of our customers. Been there done that. Yes, and lets not forget that it is a self serving benefit, as the power companies are FOR PROFIT. Again, it is a two way street.

I know how you measure power, I was asking how the poster knew. Hmm. You claim that you can know stupid with out needing to experience stupid, but yet with your expertise, you can't figure out that in his application the measure of power is via a shunt based meter???

For the record, I am not offering opinion. I am stating facts. If you bought a solar PV systems to save money, then you have been a victim of a scam. Lol. Nope, totally opinion, because you do NOT know my needs and my situation. Cripes, you don't even know how much I spent on my setup! With all due respect, I feel like I might be dealing with the mentality of ''don't confuse me with facts, when I have my opinions", as that is all we are getting thus far.
New flash! No one buys electricity to save money! They spend money on electricity (what ever type it may be and from what ever source it may come from) to run their lives, to function as their needs require. Some even spend extra money on producing their own power, because their situation requires it, and they choose the way they generate that power, so that it benefits them, in many different ways, in the long term. For most, monetary cost is a small part of the equation, as many different things factor in for each individual's needs.

I see no reason to fair to manufactures who sell you over priced junk. I don't either, that is why it is called bargain shopping for one's budget and needs.

Beach House is just repeating the solar industry marketing hype. Maybe he would like to provide some facts in the form of an detailed economic evaluation. Hmm, now all of a sudden instead of referring to me directly, you are referring to me in third person. Now it is getting just bizarre, but I will provide facts as they pertain to my unique needs. My needs require about 220 to 250 amp hours to get through the night, which can draw my four 6v, flooded battery bank down as far as 50% depth of discharge. This requires (use to require) a minimum of 4 hrs of generator run time. My generator is similar to yours, an Onan 6.3KW propane generator that is a gas hog. At partial load it consumes 1gal per hr. Propane usually costs me north of $3 per gal. Now, I'm going to be very conservative with numbers, so you don't claim that I'm exaggerating. So here is the reality, the realistic life of an Onan propane generator like you and I have is about 3000hrs (it is actually less, but I'm being generous). A new propane generator is $5435, but for simplicity and to be conservative, I will round it to $5000. Maintenance and repairs over the 3000hr life will cost well north of $3000. For me it will actually cost a lot more, as I can not do the work myself due to health reasons, but again, I'm being conservative. Fuel for the life time of the generator at my average price of $3 per gal. ($3X3000hrs) = $9000. So, 5000 + 3000 + 9000 = $17000 divided by 3000hrs. = $5.66 per hour. So this is my conservative hourly cost every time I fire up my generator, and it does not count in the time and fuel used to drive the coach to refill the propane tank multiple times. I'm sure your costs and the costs of others to run their generators are different, these are facts that pertain to my circumstances.
Now, last year I boondocked for at least 40 days. 40 days X 4hrs per day=160hrs X $5.66 = $905.60 If I stayed at campgrounds 40 days X $30 per day = $1200. Now the total cost of my solar setup was $2400 - $905.60 = $1494.4 Based on that average, my solar install will break even in 2 years and 8 months. I actually plan to increase my boondocking time considerably, so I will brake even sooner.
I chose solar to generate my power, for many reasons, monetary cost was low on the list, but it was not rocket science that for my needs it was way more cost effective than running a generator. When I made my decision, I just did rough sloppy numbers, only now I realize how much more beneficial it turned out, especially long term. Will their be maintenance costs of solar? Yes, but they are minor compared to the generator. Even if I have to purchase a whole new system in 25 years, it will still be a fraction of what the generator costs me to run.

Now, to be fair, and since we have similar generators, you provide me with numbers of what it costs you to run the generator daily, based on the same 3000hr life expectancy of the generator, meaning you need to include the maintenance repairs and wear and tear of the generator at the replacement cost value based on the life cycle.

Also for the record, you do not have to experience stupid to know it stupid.
Again, I cringe, as it smells of that difficult mentality of "don't confuse me with facts, when I have my opinions"

The reason it does not take long to charge batteries is we do not use much power when we are dry camping. I have measured all our loads.
How did you measure the loads?
Are your measurements "real life" measurements based on a shunt based meter, that can accurately tell what comes in and out of the battery?

We have a 6500 w propane Onan, and a 800 w two stroke gas generator (backup). Is your Onan a Emerald model or a Marquise?

The Trace inverter/charger typically charges at a rate of 150 a when first connected to 120 vac and then decreases as batteries reach full charge.
What model/watt output is your Trace inverter?

We have 4 lead acid golf card batteries. In the morning, they will still power the biggest load off the inverter such as heating left over coffee.

Typically, I time running the generator with running heavier loads.
Yes, agree, that is the best way to utilize a generator, especially of that size.

The smart money is on conservation of electricity that goes into the battery. For example, you can boil water ans use a french press. On cold morning, it also takes the chill off.
Yes, of course, that is common sense, but some situations don't allow that. Like in my case, I need to charge a large mobility scooter through the night, and the amp hours add up. Everyone's needs are different, and for some, the generator is not the best option, but for others it is. Put another way, people's need for vehicles, one may only need a Prius or a Curze, and another one may need a Suburban or a minivan. It's not one size fits all...

Or you can brag about how big your panels and batteries are. Do not mention how much it cost lest someone smarter will think a salesman saw you coming.

Oops, I let the cat out of the bag already.
Bragging? Again, lame, you don't know me at all.
Salesman? Yet again, you don't know anything about me. I did my own research and ordered direct from suppliers who had he best price. Never spoke to a solar salesman. On a funny note, where the heck do you come up with this silly stuff??? Lol.

On a serious note, why such obsessive hate on solar? I mean really, even if you think you are correct, if someone chooses to spend their hard earned money to cover their whole roof with solar, for whatever reason, who cares, it's no skin off of your teeth.

BTW, do you hassle the people on the off grid forums and try to convince them to use generators instead of solar??? Do you hassle the grid tie solar forums??? As that is where you should really be vocal, because our tax dollars are subsidizing the idiocy. Windmill forums too, I mean heck, don't just hassle the RV community, be fair, hassle all of them. Preach the grid and generator gospel on all forums.

[beach house]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

I can't believe 1000 watts of solar is considered small. Back in 2004, we installed 700 watts of panels, and a year later added more for a total of 1,050 watts, and people thought we were crazy for having that much.

Of course, considering the prices of panels in those days, it was kind of crazy. For a good while, our solar panels were the only appreciating asset we owned.




But someone using a generator could reap the same savings on the site cost. Of course there's the ongoing cost of fuel for the generator, which shouldn't be ignored, but it's not as if a generator user can't also save money by using a non-electric site.
You also need to count in the maintenance cost and the wear and tear cost of the generator.

I think a more accurate comparison would be how much it would cost to run a generator vs. your zero cost to "run" solar, and the difference would be your "savings." But that doesn't take into account any of the upfront costs at all, so even that's not a great comparison.

But there are other "costs," as well. For example, if you're boondocking on solar, I assume you're using propane for your refrigerator (if it's absorption) and for heating your water. The cost of that should come out of your "savings," however it's calculated.

The generator boondocker will also use propane for the refrigerator, but it will be less if the refrigerator switches to electric when the generator's on, so in that respect, the generator saves money over the solar, and that should be accounted for. Unless you are running a diesel, the more you load the generator, the more fuel it will swallow, especially if it is a propane fueled generator. It is much less costly to run the refrigerator and HWH propane, then to load the generator running those items. So, you don't save anything, if anything you are spending more...

Also, the generator user would be able to put the water heater on electric when the generator's running, and that could completely eliminate propane use for hot water, while the solar user should account for that propane when calculating "savings."

Don't get me wrong--I'm a big proponent of solar (obviously, considering how much I spent on it) and really do wish everyone within earshot of me was the same. But to say a solar user saves $15 on the non-electric sites is nowhere near the whole story.

Now, as for saving money by choosing a non-electric site, I'm not sure I would do that because even though I wouldn't be using a generator, I would assume that others around me would be, and I'd pay $15 not to have to listen to them. That seems grossly unfair to a quiet solar user like me, but unfortunately, it's just how it is.

Basically there are hidden costs, but compared to the cost of replacing an Onan generator, these hidden cost are minute.

[followingsea]

Originally Posted by rarebear.nm

Followingsea,

So you run a 6500 watt propane generator to recharge your batteries??? What overkill. You talk about conservation of power- really.
.....

No, of course I did not say that. It is clear that some do not understand the advantages of a diesel pusher or even a quality gas engine MH.

The Onan is sized to run everything at the same time for those who do not know how to manage loads. To test full capacity of Onan I run both AC, hot water heater, frig, and put an electric heater on at 1500w while charging the batteries.

On a practical matter, a generator only produces as much power as demanded. The last trip where we ran the Onan was for AC while driving down the road. We left Las Vegas for St. George UT when it was 95F. Our 18 month old granddaughter was with us. She loved it. However, the dash AC can not keep up so running the generator to power a roof AC was necessary.

We also used the generator for AC on our first leg out of Utah. In the morning there was breakfast at Denny's followed hiking in Snow Canyon State park. Little one loved it. Our son, outdoor boy, and his wife, indoor city girl, loved it too. However they were watching us closely. It has been a long time since we has a summer of sailing and camping while changing diapers.

The bottom line is we could not keep little one for the summer and we had 100 mile to drive into the sun before we were at a high enough elevation for not needing AC.

So for those who do not understand how generators work, if you are only running one AC or charging batteries, the generator is producing less than 2000 watts.

The alternator on our MH and on my boat are also over sized. On the boat it is a safety thing. Deep cell batteries are use for navigational aids.

The bottom line here is that Rarebear spent $2000 on a toy that can not get the job done and still spent another $2000 on ICE generator that can. My backup source of power cost $88.

The next time we boondock, I need to 'invest' in a whole $3 of gasoline to show that my little generator is still reliable.

[McRod]

My post wasnt about solar vs other forms of power generation. Sorry some people have turned it into that.

If you read the "why does it matter?" paragraph in the OP Its clearly stated it only mattered to me because i feel it reduces my carbon footprint and makes me independent.

Sometimes being responsible (to our environment) comes at a cost. Now i am able to recoup that cost as demonstrated.

[Harrysait]

Originally Posted by Brob

Are you able to run any air conditioning off this setup? I have a stationary system of 1.2 kw with 8 batteries and a 4000w inverter that runs a small ductless mini-split. I have been wondering how much it would take to power a rooftop unit on a motorhome.

Install the mini split in your RV! Uses lot less power than rv a/c.
I know one rvr that did that, no gen, 1300 watts of solar, everything but heating on electric. A/C will run 3-4 hours on inverter.

[babock]

Following sea is both ignorant of how charging batteries work and he is a troll. When he states that his batteries start charging at 150A, you realize he is clueless.

[rarebear.nm]

Followingsea continues to show his lack of knowledge about solar systems and why people are moving to solar in large numbers.

My solar install, like many others does get the job done and dos so quite well, and quiet at that. He has no idea what I paid for my backup generator/inverter, but its not close to his claimed $2,000. We're over a week into our trip and the geny has not even been turned on once yet, no need for it so far.

I also think he has taken this thread totally off track. If he wants to preach his ideas he should start his own thread for all of the solar haters in the RV community, oh there's only one of them.

I think the OP just wanted to make a very nice and simple statement of his solar system and how he's reduced his carbon footprint. I think that's a great post!

[Itinerant1]

^X2^

Luvin the solar no regrets.

[Reed Cundiff]

May all such trolls and Billygoat Gruff have a meeting engagement

[beach house]

Originally Posted by McRod

My post wasnt about solar vs other forms of power generation. Sorry some people have turned it into that.

If you read the "why does it matter?" paragraph in the OP Its clearly stated it only mattered to me because i feel it reduces my carbon footprint and makes me independent.

Sometimes being responsible (to our environment) comes at a cost. Now i am able to recoup that cost as demonstrated.

McRod,

My apologies, I got sucked in and contributed to high jacking the post. I should have followed my own rule and totally ignored the trolling, like I usually do.
I agree, many RVers, especially the ones that boondock a lot and are solar equipped, are very "green" with a very small foot print.

Kudos on your milestone!

[beach house]

Originally Posted by Itinerant1

82a max, 65-75a continuous average.
1,280w= 8 CTI 160 watt panels_ 2 in series, 4 sets parallel to combiner box
Magnum PT100 controller

Itinerant1,

I have the same panels, but only 6 of them (960W). They are wired in parallel but split up in two groups of three panels, fed into 2 Bogart Engineering SC2030 charge controllers, that are tied into and controlled by the Bogart Engineering Trimetric 2030RV battery monitor. The panels and the whole setup exceeded my expectations, considering that those are PWM controllers. The panels often exceed the amperage they are rated for. The highest output I ever seen was 63 amps. In the summer time the system consistently puts out 58-59amps. In the spring it's 52 amps. These numbers are during peak sun, around noon, give or take an hour. Per panel, our output numbers are pretty much the same, which makes sense considering we have the same panels. The one feature I do like with Bogart's setup, is it has built in redundancy. Even though the charge controllers are tied in and controlled by the Trimetric, they are still two completely separate systems. So if one controller dies, or a panel shorts out, 50% of my system will still work. If the Trimetric dies, the charge controls will still charge in basic mode.
All in all, you just can't beat silent power when you're out in the wilderness!

Thank you to all who posted your numbers! It is great to see how well your systems are performing.

[CountryFit]

Originally Posted by Reed Cundiff

Someone who is unfond of solar whiffed about backpacking with tent. 51 years ago four friends and I would go on eco-tours for three to five days without tent or poncho. Food and clothes were free as was helicopter transportation to and from the walks. Now at 77, my wife and I prefer an RV with solar and LFP

We have boondocked with solar in:
British Columbia, Alberta, Yukon, Ontario, Quebec, and Labrador/Newfoundland

Most US states

Most states in Mexico

Belize and Guatemala

We have run into many Overlanders who boondock with solar who have traveled through more countries than we have states and provinces m. A number we know have traversed every continent except Antarctica

Fully agree with 757Driver. Trolls should go elsewhere and annoy someone else