Already have some components, need advice for system.

[okmunky]

Shop around before buying. They are cheaper from resellers.

[Motor7]

Yea, I have learned that about almost all components and it makes me wonder why the Mfg's even bothers with retail sales.

[beach house]

Originally Posted by okmunky

Do you have a way to monitor your batteries? I consider my Trimetrics 2030-A to be an essential part of my solar system.

TriMetric Model Descriptions - Bogart Engineering

Motor7, I agree with Okmunky, about the trimetric (mine is a TM2030RV), but I would also like to add that Bogart Engineering, who makes the Trimetric, also makes a great and nifty 30amp (PWM) charge controller, the SC2030. When set up and programmed correctly, the Trimetric and the charge controller communicate and work together adding a very effective 4th charging dimension, that helps top off the batteries quicker and more completely. This is especially crucial when the solar days are short during the winter months. I have this setup and have been very impressed with the way it performs.

As for being able to use your coffee maker? It does draw a lot of amps, but for a short time, so it should not be an issue, just make sure you shut the coffee maker off after the coffee is made.

Use heavy gauge wiring from the panels to the charge controller and especially from the charge controller to the batteries. This will not only help minimize voltage drop but it will also leave you room to expand.

[okmunky]

Handy Bob also says the charge controller should be close to the batteries and at about the same temperature. I know my system has worked better since he moved mine from the very back of my coach to inside the battery box.

The only difference between the TM2030 and the RV model is the box around the RV model. Mine is set into the side of a counter so I didn’t need the box. That makes one less thing to collect dust.

[Motor7]

Hey Beach, this old 135w Kyocera panel was used to power a 12v pump running water to a pond. The wire run from panel to pump was about 150' & 12ga, it ran everyday for about 3 years until the pump finally got choked with silt. Anyway, the existing wires coming off the panel(about 6') are 12ga, so if I add another 130-40 watt panel to this one, size wire is recommended to go say 12' to the charge controller? I was going to go 6ga from controller to battery bank which will only be about 3'.

ok, already went with the Renogy(arrived yesterday) and it's remote temp sensor. I really don't want the charge controller down in the battery box exposed to all the elements.

[beach house]

Originally Posted by Motor7

Hey Beach, this old 135w Kyocera panel was used to power a 12v pump running water to a pond. The wire run from panel to pump was about 150' & 12ga, it ran everyday for about 3 years until the pump finally got choked with silt. Anyway, the existing wires coming off the panel(about 6') are 12ga, so if I add another 130-40 watt panel to this one, size wire is recommended to go say 12' to the charge controller? I was going to go 6ga from controller to battery bank which will only be about 3'.

ok, already went with the Renogy(arrived yesterday) and it's remote temp sensor. I really don't want the charge controller down in the battery box exposed to all the elements.

Motor7,

Running a pump and charging batteries with limited solar hours are two different things. Batteries need high voltage pushed during absorb stage when being topped off, especially when there is limited time, otherwise they don't get topped off, resulting in less amp/hr capacity and shorter battery life.

The wires running between the charge controller and batteries is the most crucial, that is where you want to minimize voltage drop as the batteries will need every bit. There won't be much difference in price on 6 feet of wiring, so I would suggest to go 4 gauge or even heavier, especially if you think you will expand in the future. For a few dollars, this is not an area that you want to skimp on.
From the panels to the charge controller, I would go with 8 gauge to have room to expand, 6 gauge preferred. Again, for a good and effective working solar setup, efficiency is key, which means minimizing voltage drop. Considering the work involved running wiring, it is more than worth it to spend a few extra dollars on heavier wiring and never have to worry about doing it over again. This way you just add panels as needed. The same thought process should be put into buying the charge controller. Pay a little extra for a higher capacity controller and expanding the system will be simple, painless and less costly in the long run. I strongly recommend the setup Bogart Engineering offers with the Trimetric and the SC2030 controller. The SC2030 handles 31amps, its small and runs cool w/o needing any noisy fans. At full load, I can still put my hand on the cooling fins, it gets warm, but not hot.

Right now Renology has 100W panels at about half the size of your 135W Kyocera and for $109 per panel (free shipping), that is just a little over one dollar a watt. The voltages are almost identical, so mixing the panels will not be an issue. At that price, one can expand as money and need arises.
https://www.renogy.com/renogy-100-wa...e-solar-panel/

I would also recommend reading Handy Bob's solar blog. It is very informative and save you from a lot of pitfalls.
www.handybobsolar.com

[Motor7]

Thanks Beach, it will be 6ga from panels to CC, then 4ga. I'll look into those Renogy panels & read Bob's stuff. Will update when I start the install

[Itinerant1]

Instead of just using some gauge of wire that might work here is a link to calculate the correct size.
Wire sizing calculator for Solar Panel Arrays

[okmunky]

You'll also want to make sure the wire you use will fit into the mounting slots on the charge controller. I'd consult the manufacter's info before buying wire.

[beach house]

Originally Posted by Itinerant1

Instead of just using some gauge of wire that might work here is a link to calculate the correct size.
Wire sizing calculator for Solar Panel Arrays

That calculator is inadequate, as it only goes as low as 3% loss. You are better off using industry standard voltage line loss line loss charts that show down to 1% or less.
Here is a quote from Handy Bob slolar's "Battery Charging Puzzle" article:
"From the controller to the batteries the wire size is critical. The bigger the better. If you cannot design for less than a 1% drop due to the length of run, it is possible with better controllers (Morningstar Tristar & Prostar, plus a few others) to use remote voltage sensing and the controller will boost the voltage going out, so that the correct voltage reaches the batteries. Do not be tempted to use this as a way of installing smaller wires. Voltage drop in the run between the controller and the batteries equals wattage loss in charging. Fewer watts come out of the end of the wire than go in when the voltage drops. This means that using smaller wires here will cost you watts charging every day forever. This is a foolish place to save a few dollars."

"A word on the stranded wire debate: Yes, you should use stranded wire because it is better for DC power. However, the difference between stranded building wire and finely stranded automotive or welding cable is teeny, tiny electrically, so don’t obsess about it. The finely stranded stuff is easier to work with, but the main thing to worry about is a UV rated shield on the roof, protection against damage when routing through the rig and the price. Buy what you can find at the right price and what you can deal with mechanically. There is nothing wrong with running big, stiff wires and then splicing short, flexible leads on the ends to make it possible to connect to terminals. The big wire is there to limit voltage drop, not to carry amps. You are not going to load it enough for the splices to get hot and fail."

It is better to err on the side of bigger wires then needed, especially if one plans to expand in the future. Going too big does not hurt anything except for slight cost increase. Yet going too small will decrease your efficiency and result in poor performance. This is why I suggested going bigger to Motor7.

[beach house]

Originally Posted by Motor7

Thanks Beach, it will be 6ga from panels to CC, then 4ga. I'll look into those Renogy panels & read Bob's stuff. Will update when I start the install

Motor7,

I forgot to mention, that ideally your first purchase before you start investing into solar should be a battery amp meter, like the Trimetric TM2030RV.

Here is a quote from Handy Bob Solar blog regarding the need of a shunt type battery meter:
"You should buy one of these before you spend a dime on solar power. Trying to run a battery system without a good meter is like driving a car with no fuel gauge. You end up spending your time worrying and stopping to fill up instead of driving. At a glance, we know exactly where the batteries are."

If you want to know more about my solar setup, or you have more questions, you're more than welcome to PM me.

With a good setup, I'm confidant that you will enjoy your silent power and the freedom and flexibility it provides.

[beach house]

Originally Posted by okmunky

You'll also want to make sure the wire you use will fit into the mounting slots on the charge controller. I'd consult the manufacter's info before buying wire.

That is a good point, but you can get around that fairly easily. You run the heavy wire to the disconnect box and then you can run slightly smaller wire from the box to the charge controller. Being that they are right next to each other, the run is so short it won't make much difference going to a slightly smaller wire. Most quality controllers allow large wires. For an example the Bogart Engineering SC2030 charge controller can handle up to 4 gauge wire, it's tight, but it fits.

[Motor7]

I appreciate all the info. From my boating days I learned not to go cheap on wire. The only thing that goes on my bike and MH is Anchor Marine grade tinned copper strand Duplex w/UV sheathing. Anchor also makes tinned 4ga & 2ga battery cables.

I hear ya on the battery monitor, but that Trimetric is pretty pricy for a small system such as mine. I will have to poke around and research a possible cheaper alternative.

[beach house]

Originally Posted by Motor7

I appreciate all the info. From my boating days I learned not to go cheap on wire. The only thing that goes on my bike and MH is Anchor Marine grade tinned copper strand Duplex w/UV sheathing. Anchor also makes tinned 4ga & 2ga battery cables.

I hear ya on the battery monitor, but that Trimetric is pretty pricy for a small system such as mine. I will have to poke around and research a possible cheaper alternative.

Yes, they are a bit pricey (about $160 w/shunt included). I understand budget constraints very well, but it is one of those deals that you get what you pay for. It is very accurate and easy to use, and can pay for itself with helping you keep track of your battery bank, so your expensive batteries would end up lasting much longer. As for small system, it doesn't matter how small it is, as it is a tool for you to keep track of and know what is going on with your batteries. Many RVers install this meter without having any solar, it allows them to know how much capacity they have used up, how much is left, and when and how much charging their batteries need, limiting their generator use.
Beware of the real cheap china meters, maybe consider looking for a used trimetric on Craig's List.