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08-18-2016, 02:25 PM
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#57
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Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 24
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My wife and I love to boondock so this June we did an install on our Bay Star from WeGoSolar on Vancouver Island. They had everything we needed including two 255w, 24-volt residential panels, Tristar 30A MPPT solar controller with remote and all the supporting hardware. We also bought tilt-brackets from AM Solar in Oregon. The tech we hired through WeGoSolar had everything up and running in one day. Prior to the installation we extended the battery box to hold two additional Costco 6-volt batteries. This setup works awesome. We watch TV and listen to music on our entertainment system, turn on the lights (LED) and run a superfan all night when it's hot. Even on overcast days we're fully charged before noon and on sunny days we can't hardly make a dent in the batteries. We got a surprise once when after a few hours of running our slow-cooker our inverter shut the power down. Turns out we had left the hot water tank on 'electric' and were heating water at the same time ... Our local RV dealer sells solar power 'packages' from a popular consumer brand but if we had gone that route we would have spent more - and for 160w, 12-volt panels and a PWM controller. Just the panels alone were over double what we paid for ours. If we were to offer advice it would be to shop around and find a solar company (not an RV dealer) that's willing to help build a system that will work for you.
__________________
Tom, Tish and Ripley (the American Bulldog)
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08-18-2016, 04:05 PM
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#58
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Community Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okcnewbie
I don't believe "Jensen" of all makers figured out how to make a 24 watt 32 inch tv. Do you?
That's why the Jensen manual says the 32 inch tv is 90watts.
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The electrical info plates on all appliances I have seen all seem to state the maximum wattage even if that maximum draw is only for a startup surge. The max draw probably also takes into account running the backlighting at maximum brightness. On my TV at home I have it connected to a UPS which gives a realtime readout of wattage used, and I have observed that dimming the backlight makes a HUGE difference in power consumption. So, yes, I believe it's possible.
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08-18-2016, 05:05 PM
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#59
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Senior Member
Vintage RV Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Orange County CA
Posts: 975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokerDon
>snip
1. if its too cloudy to get free power from our SunPower 327W solar panel...
>snip
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Yes, pare down usage first, LED lighting, TV's applicances, etc.
So you got one big grid-tie high-volt panel - what controller did you choose for it and what kind of charge amps do you get? That's what we'd really like to know.
Is that a mono or poly cell panel?
Did you install a battery temp sensor?
How does that panel work if there's any shading, or on cloudy days? Output full sun and partial?
__________________
Chris Brown -
2005 Itasca Sunrise 31W - W20 and 8.1
2021 Chevy Spark Toad
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08-18-2016, 06:09 PM
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#60
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Atascadero, California
Posts: 10
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Solar debate
Great to read so many diverse comments on this thread! I don't know how to respond to the ones directed my way individually, but I can metion a few things about some of the questions.
Laminate solar panels: Look for old stock Unisolar modules. They are "peel and stick" amorphous silicone and do extremely well in both high heat and diffuse sunlight. They are lower efficiency, however, coming in at around 12% versus 17% for good crystaline mods. They were made in several lengths and, therefore, various voltages, so pay attention to the nominal rated voltage! For a 12 V battery bank the PV modules should be rated @ >15 VDC nominal. The BIG thing to pay attention to though is the location of the wire terminals. You want the ones that have the connections on the FACE of the module, not the back, for the obvious reasons.
AGM batteries: Absorbed Glass Mat bats and Gell-Cell bats have different bulk and float charge points and are NOT the same as flooded lead batteries. This makes things very problematic when charging your chassis battery and house batteries simultaneously from the the same source, ie: your engine alternator. You will fry the AGMs PDQ! For best results, keep all your batteries the same type and age.
My RV, a '73 Hall GTC, has a neat-O fiberglass slide-out battery box that limits the battery capacity to 2 group 24's, which means only about 160 - 180 AH of storage capacity. Because of this I try to keep charging them with my PV modules as much of the day as possible, while limiting daytime loads to only the Maxxaire vent fan on a lower speed. It'd be really great if someone made deep-cycle 6 volt bats in the same gp 24 format, but I'm stuck with the less efficient 12 volt version instead. It works, but energy stinginess helps!
I wish it was possible (or I was clever enough) to respond to individual comments!
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08-19-2016, 10:18 AM
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#61
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Atascadero, California
Posts: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJStough
Yes, Trojan deep cycle batteries should be charged at 14.8 volts, temperature adjusted, for a period of time in order to be fully charged.
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Trojan deep-cycle FLA batteries benefit from occaisional charging @ 15 volts; not to worry about limiting to 14.8. The main things to keep tabs on are the water levels in the cells and that there's plenty of ventillation while charging at high voltages. "Boiling" promotes healthy plates!
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08-19-2016, 10:20 AM
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#62
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Junior Member
Damon Owners Club Solo Rvers Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 11
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There seems to be some confusion on this site. Volts, Amps, and Watts and totally independent of the source; be that a battery, a generator, an alternator, or a PV panel.
That being said:
100W from a battery is exactly equivalent to 100W from a generator, an alternator, or a PV panel.
100Ahr from a battery is exactly equivalent to 100Ahr from a generator, an alternator, or a PV panel.
100Ahr from a $2 battery is exactly equivalent to 100Ahr from a $100 battery
100Ahr from any type, brand, or chemical composition battery is exactly equivalent to any other type, brand, or chemical composition battery
These terms were all defined in the mid-16th century by André-Marie Ampère , Alessandro Volta, and James Watt and are standard terms we use to compare various electrical sources.
A couple of other things to keep in mind battery voltage and current are steady and constant (Direct Current) DC.
A PV panel is DC but will vary continuously as the solar energy striking it varies.
A generator (like in a 1950 Hudson) produces pulsating DC.
An alternator produces AC with the frequency varying with the RPM.
Commercial power is AC(alternating). The voltage and current follow a sine wave. Common frequencies are 50Hz, 60Hz, and 400Hz.
AC voltages, because they vary over time are usually referred to as RMS ( route mean square). This means that a DC volt is “pretty much” equivalent to an AC volt, or close enough for government work!
I do hope this helps.
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08-19-2016, 10:45 AM
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#63
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windgooroo1
Trojan deep-cycle FLA batteries benefit from occaisional charging @ 15 volts; not to worry about limiting to 14.8. The main things to keep tabs on are the water levels in the cells and that there's plenty of ventillation while charging at high voltages. "Boiling" promotes healthy plates!
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14.8 volts temperature adjusted is the minimum needed to fully charge a Trojan T-105.
__________________
Paul J Stough Iowa
2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J
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08-19-2016, 11:39 AM
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#64
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Senior Member
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Nowhere, now here. Freedom!
Posts: 4,602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windgooroo1
"Boiling" promotes healthy plates!
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I know that the "boiling" is actually the production of hydrogen, it is not a temperature caused reaction but a chemical one. The hydrogen should be able to vent away and not build up. Don't ask me anymore about it, I slept in CHEM classes.
__________________
ORV 19B Full Timer from '15 to '20, '14 Ram 2500 Diesel and a GSD. Vancouver, WA
de K7NOL 146.52Mhz Safety? (CLICK ME!)
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08-19-2016, 11:44 AM
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#65
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 41
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12V
Quote:
Originally Posted by pasdad1
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Yes you're correct that Jensen's specifications for our Jensen 32" LED 12-Volt HDTV model JE3212LED do show 7.5A (90W / 12V = 7.5A)... but my ACTUAL MEASURED current draw on our coach batteries only increases 2.0A when our 32" HDTV is on. Jensen's 90W (7.5A) rating is for the maximum initial surge rating when the HDTV is first turned on... NOT its actual 2.0A current draw. Manufacturers do the same thing for all devices including the AC units which draw a LOT more power on start up than when they're actually running ( Off Grid Solar Powered RV Air Conditioning - Is it Possible? - Gone With The Wynns).
The other reason to avoid running DC -> AC inverters from my experience is most moderately priced inverters aren't 100% efficient... And they can have a constant parasitic current draw.
Yes adding MORE solar panels and deep cycle batteries would be a great solution IF we had a large nice unobstructed roof... and a proper engineered storage area for additional batteries... Neither which our 24.5' long 2011 Winnebago View 24K offer. Plus more solar panels and batteries would simply add more weight to our Winnebago View's Mercedes Sprinter 3500HD chassis which has very little additional cargo capacity to begin with... and would lower our MPG. IF we had a larger unobstructed roof to add more solar panels + additional chassis weight capacity + a great place to add a strong place to safely add additional batteries + CA$H to buy & install these upgrades I might take your approach. But for us running everything we can DIRECTLY on 12V is a better option than running our DC to AC inverter... especially on electronics that use DC current anyway (iPhone, iPad, MacBook Pro laptop, HDTV, etc.).
Otherwise using an AC inverter on DC devices the your power goes:
•*from your DC batteries
•*to a DC to AC inverter
•*to a AC to DC device converter
•*to your DC device
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08-19-2016, 11:55 AM
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#66
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJBROWN
Yes, pare down usage first, LED lighting, TV's applicances, etc.
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• What controller did you choose for it? Renogy Tracer 40A MPPT
•*What kind of charge amps do you get? 62.7V from panel sending 9.2A at 14.5V from charge controller to 2 x 6V 232Ah Sam's Club Energizer GC@ Premium batteries in series in June full sun
•*Is that a mono or poly cell panel? MONO https://us.sunpower.com/sites/sunpow...lar-panels.pdf
•*Did you install a battery temp sensor? No...
•*How does that panel work if there's any shading, or on cloudy days?
•*Output full sun and partial? Full sun specs above... Partial sun stats not measured but we've camped in partial filtered sun under pine trees in Yosemite Valley and Sequoia National Forest campgrounds and still had enough charge to keep our batteries healthy for 2 to 3 days... Then just moved our RV to full sun parking lot mid-day while we hiked & MTB'd for a full recharge. Works great!
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08-19-2016, 12:42 PM
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#67
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Senior Member
Vintage RV Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Orange County CA
Posts: 975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokerDon
• What controller did you choose for it? Renogy Tracer 40A MPPT
•*What kind of charge amps do you get? 62.7V from panel sending 9.2A at 14.5V from charge controller to 2 x 6V 232Ah Sam's Club Energizer GC@ Premium batteries in series in June full sun
•*Is that a mono or poly cell panel? MONO https://us.sunpower.com/sites/sunpow...lar-panels.pdf
•*Did you install a battery temp sensor? No...
•*How does that panel work if there's any shading, or on cloudy days?
•*Output full sun and partial? Full sun specs above... Partial sun stats not measured but we've camped in partial filtered sun under pine trees in Yosemite Valley and Sequoia National Forest campgrounds and still had enough charge to keep our batteries healthy for 2 to 3 days... Then just moved our RV to full sun parking lot mid-day while we hiked & MTB'd for a full recharge. Works great!
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Excellent. So the Renogy controller is hanging in there? They seem to have some good product at good prices - they are just 'up the street' from me.
I'm surprised though - you're only getting 9amps? I expected something more on the lines of 20 to 23. What gives? Especially with mppt. A 327 watt high-volt panel should be kicking out a lot more than that, no?
__________________
Chris Brown -
2005 Itasca Sunrise 31W - W20 and 8.1
2021 Chevy Spark Toad
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08-19-2016, 04:20 PM
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#68
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJBROWN
Excellent. So the Renogy controller is hanging in there? They seem to have some good product at good prices - they are just 'up the street' from me.
I'm surprised though - you're only getting 9 amps? I expected something more on the lines of 20 to 23. What gives? Especially with mppt. A 327 watt high-volt panel should be kicking out a lot more than that, no?
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I think you're correct about the amperage being low... although the 250W Renogy mono panel I had installed before that output VERY similar wattage. This makes me wonder if the Renogy Tracer MPPT charge controller isn't putting out full wattage. Its definitely not our wiring since we oversized EVERY wire and made sure they were the shortest distance possible... Which is very short since our panel is almost directly above our MPPT charge controller... which is almost directly above our 2 x 6V Sam's Club Energizer GC2 Premium 232Ah battery bank. The next time I pull our RV out of storage I'll try to run by Renogy in Chino and have them test it. They were VERY helpful when I bought all our solar system parts... and took back what I didn't need too.
The only issue I had with our Renogy MPPT charge controller was I over-torqued one of the terminals and broke it. They swapped it out no questions asked... but definitely something to look out for. If I had to buy a MPPT charge controller today I'd probably get a Midnight Solar The Kid instead since its significantly smaller and has some additional features: https://www.solar-electric.com/midni...ontroller.html
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08-19-2016, 11:23 PM
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#69
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Senior Member
Vintage RV Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Orange County CA
Posts: 975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokerDon
I think you're correct about the amperage being low... although the 250W Renogy mono panel I had installed before that output VERY similar wattage. This makes me wonder if the Renogy Tracer MPPT charge controller isn't putting out full wattage. Its definitely not our wiring since we oversized EVERY wire and made sure they were the shortest distance possible... Which is very short since our panel is almost directly above our MPPT charge controller... which is almost directly above our 2 x 6V Sam's Club Energizer GC2 Premium 232Ah battery bank. The next time I pull our RV out of storage I'll try to run by Renogy in Chino and have them test it. They were VERY helpful when I bought all our solar system parts... and took back what I didn't need too.
The only issue I had with our Renogy MPPT charge controller was I over-torqued one of the terminals and broke it. They swapped it out no questions asked... but definitely something to look out for. If I had to buy a MPPT charge controller today I'd probably get a Midnight Solar The Kid instead since its significantly smaller and has some additional features: https://www.solar-electric.com/midni...ontroller.html
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That too was on my short list. I'm starting to think it might be worth the little extra it costs. Seems to me they have a calculator too, based on panel specs and temp range, what you can expect for output. A 300w panel seems to be just about right to get a 100ah of 12v charge on an average solar day.
If I can get 100w panels cheap enough I might do three of them in series instead of one big one, that way if one get some dirt or shade it won't degrade so much. Should be able to do it all for the six to eight hundred range, or thereabouts.
__________________
Chris Brown -
2005 Itasca Sunrise 31W - W20 and 8.1
2021 Chevy Spark Toad
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08-20-2016, 07:33 AM
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#70
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Community Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJBROWN
If I can get 100w panels cheap enough I might do three of them in series instead of one big one, that way if one get some dirt or shade it won't degrade so much.
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I think you mean parallel instead of series. Yes in series the voltage would be high, but only if no shade hits ANY of the three panels....then panel output drops to near zero.
In parallel two panels could have partial or even total shade, and the third one would still produce power.
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