Green and RVing

[chasfm11]

A post on another forum got me thinking. The post said "RVing and Green are a contradiction." Somehow, I believe that. My impression is that, in the eyes of the true green believers, I would only be successful if I lived naked in a cave, eating berries. Perhaps I'm mis-informed and that what I've heard only comes from the radical fringe of the movement, sensationalized by the media. For example, I agree in principal with some of the ideas that PETA has but "sea-kittens" and some of the other hype they do makes them appear so radical that I don't want to support them.

The Green folks seem to hate everything about the RV lifestyle. They point to the huge fuel "waste", the smoke and debris from wood fires and the trash that a minority of RVers leave in the wilderness after camping there.

So here is my question: Is there any room in the moderate part of the Green movement for RVing?

In our regular daily lives, we've done many things for many years to be kinder to our environment. We have significantly reduced our energy use, work hard daily at recycling and continue to look for better, less wasteful ways to do things. Last year, we drove a combined 15K miles with 7560 of that on the RV. While I view that as a good thing, the fact that almost half of that driving was on a vehicle that gets 10mpg sets some of the Green folks off their trolly.

The sarcastic side of me believes that for some of the Green folks, RV hatred is more about control and less about environmental impact. I have to admit that I feel the same way about HOAs, too, so perhaps my overall outlook is just too jaded. When I've argued that a family who drives a combined 40k miles on their passenger vehicles each year, even if they get a combined 20mpg, has a bigger carbon foot print than I do, I'm treated to deaf ears. There just doesn't seem to be a way to have a rational discussion on this subject.

Thoughts?

Charlie

[MCDDY]

Well Charlie, the Greenies sure wouldn't like me then with my 7to8mpg but @37000# combined not really that bad. Just stress the fact that when you travel you basicly shut the house down except for fridge and freezer and minimal heat vs. the small carbon footprint you have in the MH when parked. You nailed it on the control thing.
Dave

[porscheracer]

You can't have a logical discussion with someone who is totally illogical. It makes no difference whether you're talking with greenies, religious zealots, or radical racists - it's just a different brainwash.

BTW - I don't see the big thing about sea kitten . . . tastes like tuna to me.

[Hooligan]

Charles; Excellent--Now if I can just reply without getting rabid....
We used to do dogs shows with our Newfoundlands, and at several shows they announced "Check on your animals, PETA is on the premises and releasing dogs from their crates". Those animals loose on the show grounds or on the highway were better off free even if they were harmed -according to PETA. Exercised, well fed, groomed and pampered show dogs or loose and homeless dog shelter candidates.
Environmental concerns are important to all of us, and I think most of us seriously try to do our part. But there are greenies (big ones) that would borrow your RV, or fly their private jet, while you were sweeping the cave and looking for berries.
Control for sure, and, there is also real money to be made. The cap and trade program (Carbon credits) could run the cost fuel up by $5.00 a gallon, and increase home energy costs by $3700.00 per year.
I'm sure there are rational people in the Green movement and with PETA, and that you or I could have a rational, productive discussion with them. The irrational, illogical zealots are the ones we are more likely to encounter, and we are not going to make a difference to them
So enjoy what we have, live long, and prosper and above all have fun. That really ticks them off..

[chasfm11]

Those animals loose on the show grounds or on the highway were better off free even if they were harmed

Boy, Hooligan. That is a winner if I ever heard one. I know that many people buy into that philosophy because there are thousands of abandoned strays, left to fend or themselves in this area alone. We just adopted a rescue at the beginning of January who was just hours away from "the needle" when a rescue group came into the shelter for another animal and picked her up, too. She is now 11 pounds and would be nothing but coyote food in a couple of days if she were freed.

Some of the green people seem to have some of that same bent thinking. What isn't clear is why they have homed in on RVs like a missile. Truth be told, the big boaters suck a lot more diesel per hour than I do but I haven't seen them pursued and hassled at the same level as RVs. I guess it follows the same logic that the planet is better of if people in India burn diesel than if I do.

On the old pinball machines, they had a feature that completely stopped the machine from working if it was taken too far off level. It is a shame that some in the green movement folks don't come with the same "tilt" feature.

[rjf7g]

I conserve resources whether at home or camping. I know "conserving resources" isn't all it takes to "be green," but it is a starting point. Hard liners are not interested in "starting points," they just want everyone to be like them.

[chasfm11]

I know "conserving resources" isn't all it takes to "be green,

Me, too. We are pretty careful with all of the resources that we use in the RV and the B&S house. I was just trying to figure out, short of the naked in a cave example, what being green really means. Using no fossil fuel? Using no electricity? Water comes at a premium price here but we've had almost a year and a half of drought and we lost one tree to it. I don't do much watering other than just trying to keep stuff alive.

Following the "cap and trade" logic, I figured that someone would have come up with some norms which would constitute the "cap" part. I was curious to see if we were actually trading within our own lifestye so that the things that we use for the RV still fit under the cap. I was hoping that some more moderate green types had some input on the subject. I don't want listen to someone who just wants to berate me because we even own an RV. Unfortunately, those folks don't want to talk about how green they actually are. I'd be curious to know that, too.

Charlie

[Noelj]

They don't have to be green. They live off grants, donations, and lawyer fees for trying to make others green.

[ItstheTrip]

I lived naked in a cave, eating berries.

Better not let a die-hard cave conservationist catch you doing it!

I burned far more fuel when I commuted to work than I do in any two years now. And when it comes to water ... ... ... yep, you're right. There is no way to have a rational discussion with the rabid types on this subject. Whenever I try, it reminds me of the old saying, "Never wrestle with a pig. You will both get dirty but only the pig enjoys it!"

[Hooligan]

Charles; Cap and trade is another smoke and mirrors. ..It increases the cost of using carbon to economically reduce demand.The costs and benefits are ill defined, (except it will be expensive) part of the money would be plowed back to lower income earners to reduce the financial inpact, this reduces their incentive to conserve.
The well to do, (those other guys with motorhomes) make so much money they don't need to conserve. Some companies will make a lot of money and there will be redistribution of wealth (is there any of that left?), between companies and individuals. The tax benefit to the government will be substantial. Actual effect on the environment is questionable, and I don't expect to see any "norms" or attainable goals presented. OMB expects the costs to be much higher than put forth initially.
Article in the WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123655590609066021.html

[Lynnvt]

There are always extremists on both sides of an issue and usually the viewpoints of those extremists are not liveable. I have to say I do think about this issue with the rv fuel consumption sometimes but I love camping. We try to conserve in other areas of our lives; I have been recycling long before it was pc. My father never came home from the dump without something he picked up to reuse. I don't have an easy answer except for alternative fuels. We should have made that a focus a long-long time ago.

[TJM]

If other full-timer rvers are like we are, we now use far less energy, water and fuel than when we lived in our stick house. We do not take "hotel showers" or use gallons of water to flush our stool or use a top load washer for our clothes or use a dishwasher. Our showers are minimalistic, as is our foot pedal toilet. Our Splendide washer saves water. And, our dishpan uses FAR less water than the dishwasher ever did. I use my microwave/convection for all my baking and no longer heat up a huge oven for 2 people.

Most importantly is that we are full-time volunteers. We not only try to keep our country cleaner; but we give back to our country through volunteering at state and federal parks. We normally stay in one location around three months, making it worth the amount of fuel we use to get to our volunteer position. We only own one car now, instead of three. Our personal vehicle mileage is probably one third what it was.

With regard to more moderate "greenies", I might rank in that category. I try to use green as often as I can. LOVE the bacterial holding tank products. Use perfume and dye free soaps and detergents. Try not to use disposables when I don't have to. Even if the campgrounds where we stay don't have a recycle program, I have my own and encourage other hosts to use it along with me. I try to do what I can and live a life I can be proud of.

To get right down to it, as long as YOU feel what you do is good, don't worry about the people who don't worry about you.

[RVDude]

Next time you get asked about RV and (not)green ask back. As RV'ers we are exceedingly green by being far less consumptive of everything - even fuel - than stix-n-brix'ers. You have to look at the TOTAL life style, not just mpg.

How many square feet do YOU heat/cool
How much fertilizer do YOU buy for how many square feet of lawn
How much water do YOU use
How many more lights do YOU have turned on every day
How much stuff do YOU buy becuase YOU have the room for it
How many miles do YOU drive getting and keeping up with all YOUR stuff
...and the list goes on...

TOTAL lifestyle is the key.

You won't get much past a couple of these before the light bulbs go off and the mouth shuts up....

[Noelj]

We did Standard poodles for 35+ years, and you have given most of the reasons why we quit. I am not sure there are ANY rational ones, especially in PETA.