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02-14-2017, 01:42 AM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 37
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Large power inverter plus solar
my rv has a large 10,000 watt 5000 continuing power inverter with a 1200 watt solar panels system, mppt controller. the previous owner used alot of 110 volt power things and tried to rely on solar only.
should i switch out the 2 tv's 110 volts to 12volts and get a smaller inverter to run refrigerator, my thinking is the large inverter using alot of power to convert not efficent or wasted engery when i not using much power. am i correct? what is the average size inverter in HM
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02-14-2017, 02:35 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 15,749
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Larger inverters typically are less effecient than smaller inverters. Before yanking it out I would suggest to investigate the specs on the unit and see if there is a difference and if so enough to make a justifiable impact. Another option is multiple small point of use inverters. I do this using tripplite 150w and 250w inverters. They have zero power draw when off, and the 150w unit is fanless therefore no noise.
Devices operating directly on 12vdc are less wasteful of energy. Some TV already are 12vdc, with the power brick doing 120vac to 12vdc conversion. In such a case, just get rid of the power brick.
__________________
Vince and Susan
2011 Tiffin Phaeton 40QTH (Cummins ISC/Freightliner)
Flat towing a modified 2005 Jeep (Rubicon Wrangler)
Previously a 2002 Fleetwood Pace Arrow 37A and a 1995 Safari Trek 2830.
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02-14-2017, 05:23 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,317
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If your running a residental fridge and want to use a SMALL microwave, a 2000 to 2500 watt inverter is all you need. That also give you some left over for TV and computer/phone chargers.
If your fridge runs on gas, do that. Much less energy used.
In shopping for inverters, now days, pure sine wave is the best choice. A little more money but more efficient.
You need to dig into the specs for the efficiency rating and no load draw, particularly with a residential fridge, since the inverter needs to be left on.
Here is an example of a wasteful inverter.
Specifications
DC Input Voltage 13.2 V (10.5V-15V)
Output Voltage no load 120Vac +/- 3%
Continuous 5000 WattsSurge 10000 Watts (1/2 second) 91% Efficiency
No Load Current (Fan Off) 2.6A 12V
No Load Current (Fan On) 4.4A 12V
The efficiency isn't bad but the No Load amps is very high. 2.6 amps Χ 24 hours is over 60 AH a day, the usable amount of 1, 12 volt deep cycle battery, just to have it on, not powering anything.
I use a Xantrex PS2000 watt inverter. Its no load ( idle ) amp draw is less then .8 amps with 90% efficiency.
There are other brands with better #s, so shop for something that fits your budget.
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02-14-2017, 07:04 AM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 37
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i have propane/electric 110 volt refrigerator, no 12volt wire for the fridge with 1200 watt solar running the fridge and a 12volt tv house batteries should last 3 day parking?
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02-14-2017, 07:27 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony326
i have propane/electric 110 volt refrigerator, no 12volt wire for the fridge with 1200 watt solar running the fridge and a 12volt tv house batteries should last 3 day parking?
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The thing with gas/electric fridges, is that they use a lot of energy, on 120 volts.
Some use as much as 500 watts. That's around 40 amps at 12 volts. I haven tracked the duty cycle, so I don't know how long it runs, per hour.
Without knowing your battery capacity, it's hard to say if you will make it thru the night.
You have plenty of charging capacity but need enough battery capacity to make it thru the 16 hours when the solar isn't producing what your using.
I full time with 675 watts of solar, running an apartment size, 120 volt fridge, in my 2000 watt inverter.
I can go indefently without running the generator, unless I get 2 or 3 days of rain and clouds. I also have 8, 6 volt, deep cycle batteries, giving me a lot of exess capacity.
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02-14-2017, 08:11 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 15,749
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Tony, unless i missed it I don't see where you have said what size battery bank you have. Without this, no way to estimate how long you can go.
The refrigerator needs to be operated on propane, as they are very inefficient on 120vac. But consume little 12vdc when on propane. Do you have LED lighting? Lighting can consume quite a bit, with LED consuming 1/10 that of incandescent. A big variable in DC power consumption is if cold outside and you need the propane furnace - the DC fan will be your biggest consumer of battery oower. A down comforter in the bed is one of the best ways to minimize here. A propane powered catalytic heater without the need for a fan is an option.
__________________
Vince and Susan
2011 Tiffin Phaeton 40QTH (Cummins ISC/Freightliner)
Flat towing a modified 2005 Jeep (Rubicon Wrangler)
Previously a 2002 Fleetwood Pace Arrow 37A and a 1995 Safari Trek 2830.
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02-14-2017, 09:39 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Buxton, North Dakota
Posts: 3,940
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I wouldn't switch to 12 volt TVs. Most are not very good. I would say 2,000 watts is about the average inverter in a RV. One problem with changing 120 VAC TVs to 12 volts by eliminating the wall wart and hooking direct is that the TV may not tolerate the higher voltage when charging batteries with the alternator or when desulfating.
Are your inverter and converter/charger separate devices or an all in one?
__________________
2003 Winnebago Adventurer 38G F53/ V10 605 watts of Solar
1999 Winnebago Brave 35C F53V10 Handicap Equipped
1999 Jeep Cherokee, 1991 Jeep Wrangler Renegade and 2018 Chevrolet Equinox Diesel
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02-15-2017, 09:30 AM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 37
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the charger and inverter are separate, i have 8 batteries 6 trojan 6 volts and 2 engine batteries, i found a xantex freedom marine 25 charger/inverter with battery temp and remote panel, i will install, i am switching out to led lights, does the generator charge the batteries when running?
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02-15-2017, 09:36 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,317
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No, generators don't typically charge the batteries.
Generators run the inverter/charger or converter, that charges them, the same way shore power would.
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02-15-2017, 09:38 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 15,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony326
the charger and inverter are separate, i have 8 batteries 6 trojan 6 volts and 2 engine batteries, i found a xantex freedom marine 25 charger/inverter with battery temp and remote panel, i will install, i am switching out to led lights, does the generator charge the batteries when running?
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Yes, the generator powers up the charger just as shore power dies.
__________________
Vince and Susan
2011 Tiffin Phaeton 40QTH (Cummins ISC/Freightliner)
Flat towing a modified 2005 Jeep (Rubicon Wrangler)
Previously a 2002 Fleetwood Pace Arrow 37A and a 1995 Safari Trek 2830.
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02-15-2017, 10:08 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 577
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Different people have varying ways of doing things. Personally, I think your setup with a separate charger and inverter are a good idea.
The advantage of this isn't so much for locations where you can plug into perfectly working outlets, it is when the outlet power isn't so perfect, the voltage or frequency are not that stable (example Mexico) , or when you go to areas with 50 Hz and you wish to use 60 Hz appliances.
This setup also has the potential advantage of reducing the risk of the "hot skin" problem that can show up in some situations.
Unless your inverter is giving you problems, my suggestion is to instead invest your money into a LiFe battery pack upgrade and enjoy being able to run one of the air conditioners off of the house battery bank.
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02-15-2017, 11:07 AM
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#12
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Community Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Between the Oceans
Posts: 8,019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony326
the charger and inverter are separate, i have 8 batteries 6 trojan 6 volts and 2 engine batteries, i found a xantex freedom marine 25 charger/inverter with battery temp and remote panel, i will install, i am switching out to led lights, does the generator charge the batteries when running?
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yes, my powertech generator does output 6a 12v nominal to charge chassis battery directly, while delivering 120v to the charger/inverter (magnum ms2812) which in turn charges house batteries at the rate as high as 132a.
__________________
Steven & Polly
2000 Country Coach Intrigue 40' ISC 350
2018 Ford Explorer 4WD
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02-17-2017, 07:47 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 119
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You still haven't said how many AH your bank is. I wouldn't worry about running 110v TVs if your battery bank is sized for that much solar.
__________________
'03 Newmar KSDP 3703 Magnum MSH-3012 Magnum PT-100 GS 160w x 6 655 AH
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02-17-2017, 10:40 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: North East
Posts: 142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony326
the charger and inverter are separate, i have 8 batteries 6 trojan 6 volts and 2 engine batteries, i found a xantex freedom marine 25 charger/inverter with battery temp and remote panel, i will install, i am switching out to led lights, does the generator charge the batteries when running?
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Tony,
Like Mike said, you are better off keeping your large inverter, and spending more money on a battery bank, where if needed, you could run a single a/c unit, plus other items. I would roughly guess that you have 660 amp hours of battery capacity, that leaves you with 330 amp/hrs of usable capacity (you don't want to draw the batteries more than 50%). For what you are intending to use, especially if you run your refrigerator on propane, that is more than plenty of capacity for a few day. If you ever want to run high power items like an a/c unit, you would need to increase your battery bank, the rest you already have. I have 960W solar, and four 6v Crown CR260's, that have a capacity of 520 amp/hrs, 260 usable amp/hrs, I am able to run everything I need, including charging my mobility scooter, hair dryer, electric griddle, coffe maker, incandescent lights (our eyes are sensitive to LED/fluorescent lights), etc. This provides us more than enough every day unless, there is a lot of rainy days. If rainy, the scooter doesn't get used, so doesn't need charging, and if we expect rain/clouds for more than 3 days, then we cut back on power a bit. We do have some LED lights to get us though in a pinch. With all this usage, we have no issues, so unless you have some inefficiency issues with your solar charging (ex: panel shading and/or undersized wiring), you should have more than plenty of power to get you through a few cloudy/rainy days, and more or less, endless power on sunny days.
Do you have an amp meter/battery monitor like a Trimetric TM2030???
Those are key to have, to know what exactly your batteries and solar are doing and how much you are using. With out one, is like driving with out a fuel gauge on your vehicle. And no, voltage gauge is not enough, that is like having a fuel pressure gauge instead of a fuel gauge, when your fuel pressure (or voltage) drops, you know you are out of fuel, but by then it's too late.
BTW, it sounds like you have quite a whopper of a set up, so just go and enjoy the freedom of having/making your own power. You have enough to share with neighbors!
__________________
'95 Safari Serengeti 38', 300hp 6CTA8.3L Cummins, 6spd. Allison, Pac brake, Magnum chassis, Valvet Ride (torsilastic susp.), VW Jetta TDI toad, Big tripple bay window (from floor to ceiling cabinets)!!!
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