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Old 09-17-2017, 01:19 PM   #29
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There are a number of solar power scenarios, too many to write about every different one. The various options are:

Solar Power... none (OEM), small, medium, and large.
Batteries... flooded lead (OEM), AGM, lithium.
Battery Power... small (OEM), medium, and large.
Inverter/charger power... OEM and large.

I'll just go over a couple of boondocking options:

1) OEM of everything. Problem is you would need to run the generator for hours to ever get the batteries back into float. You'd also have to run it early in the morning every morning to start charging your batteries and to be able to cook and also in the evening to cook and fully charge the batteries before bed.

2) Large solar, and OEM everything else. Works good, can recharge the batteries to float stage on most days but you would still to run the generator in the morning to cook as your batteries would be pretty low from the night. If you cook before it gets dark you might not have to run the generator at night.

3) Large bank of AGM and OEM of everything else. The major issue here is getting the AGM's fully charged running the generator with it's stock charge rate. Most likely you would stop the generator after the bulk charge stage which of course over the long run is bad for the AGM (or flooded) batteries.

Here is where the fun begins...
IMHO this should be the minimum system to aim for.

4) Medium solar array, medium lithium batteries and OEM inverter/charger. On a sunny day this should get you to not running the generator at all. If you have enough lithium you should be able to cook in the morning before the solar starts pumping out electricity. Cloudy days you'll have to run the generator. The nice thing about this system is whenever the generator is running the inverter/charger can charge the batteries at 100% and there is never a float stage. Not only that the batteries have no problem being recharged to whatever percentage you want without having to be recharged to 100%.

Finally, da bomb ($$$$) system...

5) Large solar (1500+ watts), large array of lithium batteries (1000+ amp hours), and a large or dual inverter/chargers of 5000+ watts inverting and 200+ amps of DC charging. With this system you really don't need to think about how much electricity you use or when you use it. Sunny days should keep you fully charged for weeks on end. You could even run some A/C from your batteries with this system. If you run into times when you need to recharge your batteries by the generator it will quickly recharge even a large battery bank because your recharge rate would be over 200 amps and over 300 amps on a sunny day with the addition of the solar array. The only disadvantage would be the cost, easily over $25k. It would financially never pay for a system like this but having the freedom of this system for boondocking is unmatched.

There are plenty of options between all four listed above, just pick how much energy independence you want and how much you want to spend.
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Old 09-18-2017, 01:25 AM   #30
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Currently installing my second "Da Bomb" system and I'm way under 25K.

1000amp Lifepo4(not drop in) w/ basic BMS $5,500

(6)-280 watt solar panels delivered $1,300

(1)-100amp max output solar charge controller $800

Wiring, circuit breakers, circuit breaker housings $300

Aluminum framing materials, nuts, bolts and hinges(manual tilting for Quartzsite) $600

(2)-4000watt inverter/chargers $2000

Programable regulator for the alternator $350

So easily under $11,000 in round numbers.
Might add $2000 more if I decide to go with Magnum inverter/chargers.

Of course this is a do it yourself install so no labor costs.
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:36 AM   #31
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That is da bomb!
Yes DIY will save you a ton of $!
How many hours do you expect it to take you?
I'd love to see your progress in a post here!
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:27 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SV K View Post
Currently installing my second "Da Bomb" system and I'm way under 25K.

1000amp Lifepo4(not drop in) w/ basic BMS $5,500

(6)-280 watt solar panels delivered $1,300

(1)-100amp max output solar charge controller $800

Wiring, circuit breakers, circuit breaker housings $300

Aluminum framing materials, nuts, bolts and hinges(manual tilting for Quartzsite) $600

(2)-4000watt inverter/chargers $2000

Programable regulator for the alternator $350

So easily under $11,000 in round numbers.
Might add $2000 more if I decide to go with Magnum inverter/chargers.

Of course this is a do it yourself install so no labor costs.
Curious where you got 1000Ah lithium for $5500
Also, what kind of RV are you putting this on. 6x280w panels is a lot of space.
Am interested in the "Programmable regulator" as I simply disconnect my alt from charging the lithium batts with a relay and a switch. Allows me to charge to a certain level if necessary.
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:44 AM   #33
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Curious where you got 1000Ah lithium for $5500
Also, what kind of RV are you putting this on. 6x280w panels is a lot of space.
Am interested in the "Programmable regulator" as I simply disconnect my alt from charging the lithium batts with a relay
i don't see anything out of range.
i have 1200ah li and i spent way less than that - admittedly i bought from an ev project supplus.
i have 9 x 240w on my roof now, and in search mode for a same panel to add on.
sterling power has the smart alt charger.

if i were to do it again, i would probably go with a 4400w 48v system from magnum. currently i am on magnum 2800v 12v.
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Old 09-18-2017, 04:01 PM   #34
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We are at 4.5 on 4 x 4's scenario with 1400 W of solar, 9 kW-hrs of LFP, 4.0 kW PSWI, and 1500 W battery charger (if and when we hook into line power or generator. Our son is in solar and he has pallet loads of 235 and 315 W panels. I want to switch out the 235's for 315s and add two more panels and then add two more Manzanita Micro batteries of 180 amp-hours at 12 V ((1100 amp-hours at 12 V nominal) for another 2.2 kW-hrs of storage: however. both wife and son have brought me under control by asking when have we ever needed more power/storage. The problem is like the Cracker Jack meme "the more you have the more you want!" even if you have no need for more. We do go north or up in elevation for summer and south (Yucatan) for winter, aka Goldilockers

The power is at 90 V from panels to controller with 48 V battery suite. Power goes from battery suite via 4.5 kW PSWI and 500 W 48 V to 12 V Mean Well converter.
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Old 09-22-2017, 12:38 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Reed Cundiff View Post
We are at 4.5 on 4 x 4's scenario with 1400 W of solar, 9 kW-hrs of LFP, 4.0 kW PSWI, and 1500 W battery charger (if and when we hook into line power or generator. Our son is in solar and he has pallet loads of 235 and 315 W panels. I want to switch out the 235's for 315s and add two more panels and then add two more Manzanita Micro batteries of 180 amp-hours at 12 V ((1100 amp-hours at 12 V nominal) for another 2.2 kW-hrs of storage: however. both wife and son have brought me under control by asking when have we ever needed more power/storage. The problem is like the Cracker Jack meme "the more you have the more you want!" even if you have no need for more. We do go north or up in elevation for summer and south (Yucatan) for winter, aka Goldilockers

The power is at 90 V from panels to controller with 48 V battery suite. Power goes from battery suite via 4.5 kW PSWI and 500 W 48 V to 12 V Mean Well converter.
reed, you have a great system!! 9000w at 48v pack (equivalent to 750ah at 12v term) is my favorite, easy on wires. is your 4.5kw pswi a victron?
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:58 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reed Cundiff View Post
We are at 4.5 on 4 x 4's scenario with 1400 W of solar, 9 kW-hrs of LFP, 4.0 kW PSWI, and 1500 W battery charger (if and when we hook into line power or generator. Our son is in solar and he has pallet loads of 235 and 315 W panels. I want to switch out the 235's for 315s and add two more panels and then add two more Manzanita Micro batteries of 180 amp-hours at 12 V ((1100 amp-hours at 12 V nominal) for another 2.2 kW-hrs of storage: however. both wife and son have brought me under control by asking when have we ever needed more power/storage. The problem is like the Cracker Jack meme "the more you have the more you want!" even if you have no need for more. We do go north or up in elevation for summer and south (Yucatan) for winter, aka Goldilockers



The power is at 90 V from panels to controller with 48 V battery suite. Power goes from battery suite via 4.5 kW PSWI and 500 W 48 V to 12 V Mean Well converter.


Wow....
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:49 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reed Cundiff View Post
We are at 4.5 on 4 x 4's scenario with 1400 W of solar, 9 kW-hrs of LFP, 4.0 kW PSWI, and 1500 W battery charger (if and when we hook into line power or generator. Our son is in solar and he has pallet loads of 235 and 315 W panels. I want to switch out the 235's for 315s and add two more panels and then add two more Manzanita Micro batteries of 180 amp-hours at 12 V ((1100 amp-hours at 12 V nominal) for another 2.2 kW-hrs of storage: however. both wife and son have brought me under control by asking when have we ever needed more power/storage. The problem is like the Cracker Jack meme "the more you have the more you want!" even if you have no need for more. We do go north or up in elevation for summer and south (Yucatan) for winter, aka Goldilockers

The power is at 90 V from panels to controller with 48 V battery suite. Power goes from battery suite via 4.5 kW PSWI and 500 W 48 V to 12 V Mean Well converter.
More isn't wrong but for you're average full timer, systems like that are overkill. About the only thing you protect yourself against is a string of cloudy days...but generator.

A battery bank with maybe 1.5 to 2 times your daily AH use and enough solar to charge them most days, maybe plus a bit more, is really all you need.

But practicality can be overrated...
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Old 09-24-2017, 10:45 AM   #38
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how much is much? there is no straight answer as it all depends on individual needs. to one is enough to another may NEVER be enough.

i see solar has an endless potential. it all boils down to how you are going to use it.

my toad is a hybrid plug in. look at my gauge:



among 812 miles, 771 miles were from electricity, only 1.3g of gasoline was consumed, yielding 617.6 mpg.

where the electricity came from? from solar!

to me, my current 2160w is still too small. that is the reason i wanted to add more to fill up the roof spaces. once i get the matching panel(s), i would be much happier.

but, if you are just to maintain your battery and for daily mild use, especially those from park to park, i agree, probably 600w solar with 300ah li is suffice.
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Old 09-24-2017, 01:24 PM   #39
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Country Fit - It is a 4.0 kW Magnum Energy PSWI on the 5th wheel
and a 2.5 kW Magnum Energy PSWI on Roadtrek

Dan - you are correct that the average full time does not need "Da Bomb" but if you primarily boondock at "dispersed camping" areas on BLM, Forest Service, and similar secluded spots in the Western US, then extensive solar and LFP is extremely nice. No generator means that the animals ignore your presence fairly quickly and the birds and wildlife come near. Our Open Range 34' fifth wheel has about 18" of clearance. Just googled ground clearance of a Newmar and it is about 8" and not really designed to take off paved or really kept up gravel roads. Having a large battery bank is an excellent idea particularly if the bank is LFP since you can charge at C watts (amps). If you were down 4 kw-hrs and had a 4 kW generator, then you could recharge to 100% in an hour. The Roadtrek EcoTrek power module is available in 200, 400, 800 and 1600 Amp hours.These LFP battery suites are designed to be charged by combination of standard and secondary alternators off the engine. Son removed the alternator charging from our system in his design.
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Old 09-24-2017, 02:37 PM   #40
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Country Fit - It is a 4.0 kW Magnum Energy PSWI on the 5th wheel
and a 2.5 kW Magnum Energy PSWI on Roadtrek

Dan - you are correct that the average full time does not need "Da Bomb" but if you primarily boondock at "dispersed camping" areas on BLM, Forest Service, and similar secluded spots in the Western US, then extensive solar and LFP is extremely nice. No generator means that the animals ignore your presence fairly quickly and the birds and wildlife come near. Our Open Range 34' fifth wheel has about 18" of clearance. Just googled ground clearance of a Newmar and it is about 8" and not really designed to take off paved or really kept up gravel roads. Having a large battery bank is an excellent idea particularly if the bank is LFP since you can charge at C watts (amps). If you were down 4 kw-hrs and had a 4 kW generator, then you could recharge to 100% in an hour. The Roadtrek EcoTrek power module is available in 200, 400, 800 and 1600 Amp hours.These LFP battery suites are designed to be charged by combination of standard and secondary alternators off the engine. Son removed the alternator charging from our system in his design.
Reed and Elaine
Agree for the most part. Just thought it was worth mentioning that lot's of committed boondockers live on 4 6v batteries with 225 Ah of usable capacity and 400-600 watts of solar. Totally doable.

That can be a bit like living pay check to paycheck, however, as you can't go for more than a couple of days without resorting to the generator (credit card in this example, I guess) but it's doable. Having some excess is, as you said, nice. Without more storage and solar capacity, battery levels is a near daily concern, though one that you'll get used to once you have some experience with the system.
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Old 09-24-2017, 06:49 PM   #41
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Dan

We have been boondocking for 9 years. We have lasted for five days in the woods on Olympic Peninsula with intermittent rain with our system. We used the micro-wave several times each day to heat water for tea and the Aeropress coffee maker, watched BBC Mystery Theater on DVD each night and were still above 50% SOC at the end of that time. We did the same at Cave Creek in SE Arizona for a week and still had 50% SOC at the end under extremely heavy foiliage. We spent 14 weeks last summer (2016) with Roadtrek in Labrador and Newfoundland and did not have to tie into line power once (we only spent two nights in RV park in Labrador) since ioverlander.com gave us free places. We then spent 14 weeks in Mexico and only tied in at beach in Yucatan and then at San Cristobal de las Casas (it was raining and we were under tree) and did not use any line power for the following 8 weeks. It was nice to know that the 2.5kW integrated Onan was there just incase.

I remember the days of 45 years ago as a rock climbing bum and being delighted that one of us owned a VW van and that Coleman stove and lamp were available.That was gracious living back then. However, we are 77 now and greatly appreciate sufficiency of solar power and electrical storage. 50 years ago we thought a PRC-25 was a marvel of science and engineering.
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Old 09-24-2017, 10:00 PM   #42
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Dan

We have been boondocking for 9 years. We have lasted for five days in the woods on Olympic Peninsula with intermittent rain with our system. We used the micro-wave several times each day to heat water for tea and the Aeropress coffee maker, watched BBC Mystery Theater on DVD each night and were still above 50% SOC at the end of that time. We did the same at Cave Creek in SE Arizona for a week and still had 50% SOC at the end under extremely heavy foiliage. We spent 14 weeks last summer (2016) with Roadtrek in Labrador and Newfoundland and did not have to tie into line power once (we only spent two nights in RV park in Labrador) since ioverlander.com gave us free places. We then spent 14 weeks in Mexico and only tied in at beach in Yucatan and then at San Cristobal de las Casas (it was raining and we were under tree) and did not use any line power for the following 8 weeks. It was nice to know that the 2.5kW integrated Onan was there just incase.

I remember the days of 45 years ago as a rock climbing bum and being delighted that one of us owned a VW van and that Coleman stove and lamp were available.That was gracious living back then. However, we are 77 now and greatly appreciate sufficiency of solar power and electrical storage. 50 years ago we thought a PRC-25 was a marvel of science and engineering.
Reed and Elaine
That's pretty awesome! More power is like money in the bank. At this point, I think we'd be happy with 600 w of solar and four 6v batteries. Baby steps.
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