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Old 12-20-2018, 09:49 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by MIBobS View Post

I put it on the feed side of the buss to use it also as a main disconnect and figured the inverter would be the main draw and everything else connected to the buss would be pretty small.

Maybe I should just go ahead and move it to the feed to the inverter and add a battery main switch and 400amp catastrophic fuse to the feed side of the battery buss, but I was hoping to do it this way and eliminate several “connections”. Or maybe just bump the main circuit breaker up to 300 amps.

Thx again for looking over my setup

A breaker/fuse is meant to protect wire if there is a short circuit. A 250A breaker or 400A fuse is too big to protect the wiring to the converter.
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:20 PM   #30
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My T type fuse between the battery and the inverter was OE for original 2000w inverter. I upgraded the inverter to 2800w but retained the 300A T fuse and 2/0 wirings. The system has been working good.
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:55 AM   #31
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Battery to Inverter wiring

I may be missing something...

I got the wire and fuse sizing right from the altEStore website for cable and fusing (see attached). 3000watt inverter 4/0 wire with either a 400amp fuse or a 250 amp breaker.

Is there somewhere else I should look.

The inverter comes with a 1’ pair of cables for pos and neg (2 wires for each side) and stated that they were for “low” output only and to use big cabling for higher demand.

3000watt at 12volts is 250amps so that is the sizing I used.

My install allows me the room to just continue with the 4/0 cables from the buss bars so that was my plan.

Please let me know if I am missing something.

Thx
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Old 12-21-2018, 10:32 AM   #32
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Admittedly the cables between the batts and the inverter are bigger/heavier the better. On my Magnim 2800w inverter manual it also recommends 4/0 cables. While installing my inverter, I called AM Solar in Eugene checking if they got 4/0 cables. The manager on the phone heard my story and told me that 2/0 on my coach was fine; and check if it'd get hot, at the worst scenario just double it up. (AM Solar is reputable; not only do they a good job, also very honest - strongly recommend them). Years have passed, the cables do get warm but never very hot, even when I run A/C in summer.

2/0 cables can handle up to 283A current, but whenever the load demands about 250A draw, in a minute the inverter would quit for "overload" protection (my biggest load a single A/C would draw about 200A). 300A T type fuse has never blown.
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Old 12-22-2018, 01:08 AM   #33
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Admittedly the cables between the batts and the inverter are bigger/heavier the better. On my Magnim 2800w inverter manual it also recommends 4/0 cables. While installing my inverter, I called AM Solar in Eugene checking if they got 4/0 cables. The manager on the phone heard my story and told me that 2/0 on my coach was fine; and check if it'd get hot, at the worst scenario just double it up. (AM Solar is reputable; not only do they a good job, also very honest - strongly recommend them). Years have passed, the cables do get warm but never very hot, even when I run A/C in summer.

2/0 cables can handle up to 283A current, but whenever the load demands about 250A draw, in a minute the inverter would quit for "overload" protection (my biggest load a single A/C would draw about 200A). 300A T type fuse has never blown.
Agree, the heavier the better. And also the shorter the better. The voltage drop in even 4/0 with a large inverter is surprising. Add that to the voltage drop in fuses/circuit breakers and a monitoring shunt and your inverter may be kicking off on low voltage when it's heavily loaded and the battery is older and down around 50% SOC. Of course, the drop in battery voltage is the larger problem but adding in a few tenths of a volt external to the battery does aggravate the situation. AGMs and LFP are less likely to have this problem (if adequately sized) than FLA.
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Old 12-22-2018, 07:23 PM   #34
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A breaker/fuse is meant to protect wire if there is a short circuit. A 250A breaker or 400A fuse is too big to protect the wiring to the converter.
True, but it's best to recognize that the protection provides two functions. One is overload protection and the other is short-circuit protection.

Ideally the protective device has two "elements" in it, one slower one to disconnect on an overload and a faster one to disconnect on a short-circuit. One can choose to have one or the other or both depending on circumstances. Or to just use the device as a disconnect (if overload and short-circuit protection are provided by other devices).

Since short-circuit current can/will be thousands of amps, most any credible device will provide that protection. Overload is trickier in that the protective device should open for a current that is not much above the ampacity of the conductors; maybe 20 or 25% above.

The big load, the inverter, will have it's own protection that disconnects it on a downstream overload thus protecting the upstream conductors between it and the battery if they are sized to carry maximum inverter load current. This isn't perfect in that it's remotely possible to have not very high current flowing into a fault in the inverter. But, a failure inside the inverter will likely be quite catastrophic very quickly and cause the short-circuit overcurrent element to operate. The breakers/fuses in question surly provide that most important protection.

Fuses usually cover both low and high current interrupting requirements (though not always). Circuit breakers to can provide one or the other or both. Digging into that might be wise given that RV burn downs due to electrical problems are not unheard of.

There are requirements for RV electrical systems in the National Electric Code. I do not know if they cover this part of an RV. It might be worth googling this. If DC is covered, the NEC will be a good guide. An in case of any kind of lawsuit, having followed the NEC will help one's case.
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Old 12-26-2018, 03:08 PM   #35
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Panel Configuration

Guys,

I am narrowing down my equipment choices down but now I am looking at what is the best way to configure my panels to minimize the effects of "shading", especially living in Michigan.

I have a 36" Montana 5th wheel with plenty of room to run the panels down the outside edges of the roof on each side.

I have attached a pic of the 3 different ways I have come up with mounting/configuring them and looking for your opinions on the the pros and cons of each.

Thx in advance for your input

8 - 100 watt renogy panels
Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 CC
600Ah AGM battery bank
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Old 12-29-2018, 05:43 PM   #36
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Guys,

I am narrowing down my equipment choices down but now I am looking at what is the best way to configure my panels to minimize the effects of "shading", especially living in Michigan.

I have a 36" Montana 5th wheel with plenty of room to run the panels down the outside edges of the roof on each side.

I have attached a pic of the 3 different ways I have come up with mounting/configuring them and looking for your opinions on the the pros and cons of each.

Thx in advance for your input

8 - 100 watt renogy panels
Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 CC
600Ah AGM battery bank
Hopefully RV'ers will at some point have the option of micro inverters as now common on home systems. Then this question will not arise.

Do you have A/C units between the two columns? If so, where they are located should be taken into account. In winter with the RV oriented E-W you will pretty much lose one string if using C. Even in summer, if the RV is oriented N-S, you will lose one string in the morning and the other in the afternoon (losing one panel out of four to shade will render four panels unused in C). A or B might work better depending on A/C location(s).

Is your roof crowned left to right like mine? That's important and would somewhat favor B and C.

Some MPPT controllers don't help as much at lower voltages. This would favor C. Check yours.

My solution was C except with a separate controller for each column. This way I get the most out of each column even if the A/C is shading a panel in one column. Likewise, trees usually hurt less.

If trees are your only problem but a frequent one, A is probably best.

Any idea as to what sun angles you will experience? If you camp only in summer with no shade, all three should work fairly well though C has the voltage advantage (MPPT works better and less I^2R loss in the wires).

I'd start with C and try to find relative advantages to the others re A/C and trees and seasons you will camp in.

H
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:49 PM   #37
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What would be the ballpark cost of a system like that, without paying for installation?
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:52 PM   #38
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What would be the ballpark cost of a system like that, without paying for installation?
Right now it’s going to come in around $3,500 depending on if can find the remainder of the items I need on sale or not. I found an amazing deal on the batteries $248 dollars at Walmart but they only had 3 left and they damaged one in shipping and they are on backoredr. If I can’t get another one from them the next cheapest is $362 from Home Depot.
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