Sealed vs. non-sealed battery?

[Gandalara]

Besides the difference in price (and convenience of not worrying about water levels) -

Do sealed batteries last longer? Charge better?

Sorry, I'm a newbie

[BFlinn181]

Charging is no different than an 'open' battery. They might last longer if the open battery wasn't maintained properly and allowed to loose electrolyte. A sealed battery can be opened to check specific gravity, it's just a little more difficult than unscrewing the caps. Regardless if it's sealed or unsealed, keeping it charged, don't let it get below 12 v (50% discharged) and periodically remove and clean connections will make it last a long time.

[safari1]

Only batteries I have had any luck with in AZ is Optima, the wet cell batteries never last more than 1-2 years. I get 5+ years out of Optima. Im sure in cooler climates wet cell batteries are fine but not in this 115+ heat in the summer.

[camaraderie]

Gandalara...lets first clarify that their are SEALED LEAD AciD batteries and SEALED AGM (absorbed glass mat) batteries. Deep Cycle AGMS are the only ones suitable for RV use as merely sealed lead acic batteries are really designed just for starting.

AGM's have a big disadvantage in price as you know. They also have NO advantage in cycle life (how many charge/discharge cycles you may expect) although there are PRemiuM AGM batteries which do...just as there are premium wet cell batteries which do. They are also more sensitive to being left not fully charged...and more sensitive to being constantly trickle charged. (Best to charge em fully and leave em alone)

Advantages are:
1. No maintenance...this is more important than you might think as more batteries are killed due to lack of maintenance than for any other reason.
2. Can be mounted in any position...and indoors with decent ventilation.
3. Much lower freezing temperature when fully charged. Great for the cold north.
4. At least TWICE the charge current acceptance AND available discharge current. This means you can power bigger loads for short times AND charge with only 1/2 the generator run time (or less) as wet cells...if you have a big enough charger. This saves time, money and fuel and noise.
5. 1/10th the self discharge rate of wet cells...this means you can leave batteries fully charged for literally months (completely disconnected of course) and come back to batteries that are still good.) Good if you store your coach for months at a time.

AGM's won't ever pay for themselves in an economic sense...though the savings in fuel and generator maintenance WILL narrow the gap somewhat. The real key is whether you need the other benefits they DO provide.
I do agree with Safari's comments about very hot climates and wet cells...though not about Optimas except that they ARE AGM's which will outperform the wet cells in his situation. Other AGM's will outperform the Optimas which is why their amp/hour ratings are lower than comparable sized batteries.
Suggest you also invest about $150 bucks in a real, permanent battery monitor (Victron) so that you can see exactly how much you've used, and your present usage rate and how much time left till you hit 50% charge and need to recharge. THIS will save you lots of battery money over time!

[Gandalara]

Thanks for all the info, everyone!

No gennie - batteries will be charged daily by solar
The less I have to worry about ... well, you get the picture.

[camaraderie]

If you are charging by solar...you should not use AGM's. They will die quickly if less than fully charged and solar cannot be relied on to provide a full charge after discharge. This assumes you won't ALWAYS be plugged in somewhere which would kind of negate the solar panel need.
In your planning...how many amp hours are going to be in your battery bank? How many watts of panels are you going to be installing? And what is your planned amp hour use per day?

[wa8yxm]

People talk about how AGM's are so great Last longer and can be charged faster... Well SOME AGM's the makers do recommend a faster charge but is your converter up to it? (NO) and only some..

Overall life.. Generally no better than properly maintained wet cell. HOWEVER in some cases yes they last longer.. or they last shorter in other cases.. I can not predict your case. Mine died fast relative to the other tyeps.

Sealed or not however does not always mean AGM,, Maintenance free are also sealed valve regulated lead acid batteries.

AGM's do not need to be mounted "This side up" as do wet cell types (including MF).

But a properly maintained set of flooded wet cells... Well my Interstate U-2200's which will soon be replaced (They died this month) came with the motor home in May of 2005 and have been run down way beyond the limit more times than I care to admit. I used to have a 2nd house system (inverter) with AGM's. those were the first batteries to go in this motor home.. I also had some older Maintenance free, those went next (But over all are about the same age as the GC-2 (U-2200) when they died.

So, I'm sold on wet cell technology

If access is an issue, use sealed (Maintenance free) Else flooded (Cheaper).

[Selah]

There is a difference in charging but most modern chargers have setting for wet cell or AGM. Check yours to make sure. As far a lasting longer I have no idea. From reading lots of other posts on the subject I find it difficult to figure out who might really know the answer and who is just guessing.
My guess is that they do, or don't depending on unusual or common circumstances beyond normal human control. So there you have it!

[Smitty77]

AGM vs Leaded is like Chevy vs Ford, or heck Dino vs Synthetics!

Each has to determine their needs, their budget, then ensure they have the proper equipment to support whatever 'battery' is in their house bank.

IMO, no 'right' or 'wrong' on this.

I went with AGM's for few reasons:

1) No mess no fuss, and flexibility on orientation mounting
2) The faster recharge time, and second within this one, some AGM's allow lower SOC usage levels.
3) Not that I hope to need it, but AGM's can handle colder temps
4) Less loss of power while the rig is sitting

We upgraded our house bank to 800AH (4X L16's Lifelines). A new Magnum 2800 Pure Sine Wave (and related supporting components). 1200W of High Efficiency Solar Panels. Midnight Classic 150 Controller.

We now have the Magnum defaulted to 'Auto Charger Off', but if needed and turned on manually it is set to the Lifeline AGM charger setting. We did this, because we used the Midnight Classic 150 Custom Setting, that we then coordinated with Lifeline for our specific L16's to set the Bulk/Absorb/Float settings.

When the coach is parked between trips we don't plug it in. We have sun from about 8:00AM to 12:30PM window, due to structures where we park.

Even on cloudy days rainy days, we are in Float mode at the latest by 10:30AM.

We're still learning how the Solar Panels support while actually using the RV, but with very minor conservation efforts, we are able to replenish our average usage of 135-165AH per day, by early noon on most days. This was in September usage, from San Diego to South Dakota and back to San Diego. We did determine that Solar Panels, no matter how efficient and size of panels, put out none to very little AH's when covered with 4-5" of snow!

All that being shared, I will confirm that we also had very good support over 5 years with our X2 Trojan T125 (T145 would not fit due to head room). We used an auto watering system, and I cleaned the battery area and cable connections yearly. This was in a 98 Bounder, with a less then robust or sophisticated converter/charger/wizard combo.

I mention our wet cell usage/experience, as I feel it important to recognize that wet or AGM - they will all work for you, just do things differently.

Do your analysis and pick the batteries that work for your needs.

Best to all,
Smitty

[Gandalara]

Originally Posted by Selah

My guess is that they do, or don't depending on unusual or common circumstances beyond normal human control. So there you have it!

Originally Posted by Smitty77

AGM vs Leaded is like Chevy vs Ford, or heck Dino vs Synthetics!

Each has to determine their needs, their budget, then ensure they have the proper equipment to support whatever 'battery' is in their house bank.

IMO, no 'right' or 'wrong' on this.

Thank you for speaking English
My eyes are glazing and my internet dictionary is getting a work-out, LOL. But I'm slowly learning solar lingo.

As for camaraderie's questions of ...

how many amp hours are going to be in your battery bank? How many watts of panels are you going to be installing? And what is your planned amp hour use per day?

1) I don't know. The 'bank' is two batteries, all I have room for
2) 160 watts, and a 2000W pure sine wave inverter
3) I have no idea. It's only a small camper. But I will be in it for at least 6 months or longer. Electrical - all LED lights, 3-way fridge, blower on the heater, water pump, Jensen 19" TV/DVD, a crockpot, small appliance chargers, and my (most important) computer. That's it. No AC in the camper. No microwave or coffee pot will be used unless I'm on shore power.

And I just got a phone call that it's finally here in CA (from Iowa).
And they forgot to put a top counter on the custom cabinet.
So now I wait until January to get the camper.
Sigh. I want outta here!

Thanks again to everyone!

[jackfish]

1) You should find out. Battery make, model numbers, and 20-hour Ampere Hour rating.
2) 160 watts of solar charging two unspecified batteries and a 2000 watt inverter running unspecified AC loads isn't much help.
3) You should get an idea. A battery monitor and energy usage audit are advised.
Why be in the dark, so to speak, when enlightenment will be of much benefit to your RV's operation?

[camaraderie]

Originally Posted by Gandalara

As for camaraderie's questions of ...
1) I don't know. The 'bank' is two batteries, all I have room for
2) 160 watts, and a 2000W pure sine wave inverter
3) I have no idea. It's only a small camper. But I will be in it for at least 6 months or longer. Electrical - all LED lights, 3-way fridge, blower on the heater, water pump, Jensen 19" TV/DVD, a crockpot, small appliance chargers, and my (most important) computer. That's it. No AC in the camper. No microwave or coffee pot will be used unless I'm on shore power.

Thanks for the response. You have at MOST around 225 Amp Hours of batteries...which means you are limited to using a max of about 115 amp hours (perhaps less) per day and trying to replenish that small use with a solar panel that will deliver on average about 30 amp hours per day. So... basically you need to fit your electric use into about 30 amp hours per day. (Example...your PC probably uses about 1/10 of your daily allowance of amp hours in ONE hour.) This should help you figure out your approximate ACTUAL amp hour per day needs which I'm guessing will be considerably in excess of 30. RV Electrical Power for Dry Camping

The choices if you find you need more power are:
1. Add more solar panels: Divide wattage by 4 for average daily amp hour output in sunny climes.
2. Add a small PORTABLE generator...to run your stuff WHILE you are using it to power a battery charger. Honda and Yamaha make nice ones but you can get cheaper too.
Remember...not recharging your batteries fully OR discharging them regularly more than 50% will kill them.
Good luck!

[TwelveVolt]

Back to the original question. When asked about maintenance free batteries, the fellow at the local chain auto parts store assured me that all their lead/acid batteries were maintenance free. He went on to say that they consider the warranty void if the caps have been removed (i.e. the electrolyte has been contaminated by adding potentially unclean water). I noticed that several of the batteries appeared to have no fill caps, but on closer inspection you would have to remove or cut the manufacturer's label to get to them.

Has the lead-acid technology changed in recent years in a way that reduces the need to add water?

Just FYI, the maintenance free group 31 Deka starting batteries in my coach are 7 years old and working just fine.

[BFlinn181]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

Back to the original question. When asked about maintenance free batteries, the fellow at the local chain auto parts store assured me that all their lead/acid batteries were maintenance free. He went on to say that they consider the warranty void if the caps have been removed (i.e. the electrolyte has been contaminated by adding potentially unclean water). I noticed that several of the batteries appeared to have no fill caps, but on closer inspection you would have to remove or cut the manufacturer's label to get to them.

Has the lead-acid technology changed in recent years in a way that reduces the need to add water?

Just FYI, the maintenance free group 31 Deka starting batteries in my coach are 7 years old and working just fine.

Here's a link to an extensive and informative article about batteries, types and their strengths and weaknesses. Lead-based Batteries Information