Community Forums

drdarrin · 07-02-2016, 11:36 AM

Hey folks. Me again. I'm finishing up my solar install (520 Watts of panels, 464 Ahr of total battery capacity, Morningstar 45A MPPT charge controller) and now I'm looking for advice on which inverter to get. I would like to be able to run any of the 120V appliances except the AC and fireplace/electric heater in the 5er (the higher wattage ones, one at a time and for minutes, not hours). The highest wattage appliance is a 1500W microwave.

I'm thinking a minimum of a 2000W pure sine wave inverter. I intend to wire the inverter directly into my existing distribution panel and control most of the parasitic AC loads either by unplugging them or via a switchable outlet strip. The microwave being the exception.

1) what brand/size inverter have you chosen for your installation? Any issues with it?

2) is there an advantage to installing an inverter/charger vs a straight inverter? I already have 2 (the OEM and the Morningstar). A third seems unnecessary.

3) would a straight inverter require isolation from shore power, either internal or external, wired as I propose? I'm thinking it would.

It occurs to me that if I wire directly into my existing distribution panel, that will activate my existing OEM charge controller. I'll have to find a way to shut that off. (drawing from the batteries to power an inverter which runs a charge controller to charge the batteries sounds like a way to run down the batteries!)

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Roy

BFlinn181 · 07-02-2016, 01:33 PM

I'd suggest replacing the on board inverter/charger with one that has the capacity for what you want. To have multiple inverters leaves the chance that 2 or more sources of alternating current could combine and damage electronics unless each was equipped with a transfer switch. Seeking a PSW inverter is a good choice to make sure everything plays nice with the power.

dons2346 · 07-02-2016, 08:55 PM

The best inverter/charger is the Magnum Energy. The best prices can be found at Boat Supplies, Marine Electronics & Sailing Gear | iMarine USA

Size is up to you, I installed the 3000 hybrid.

If you have a stock inverter, get rid of it. If you have a converter, get rid of it also

drdarrin · 07-02-2016, 10:28 PM

You weren't kidding about price. Theirs was $700 less than anywhere else I've priced that inverter. Thanks for the tip. Decision made. MSH3012M is on the way.

wanderer69 · 07-03-2016, 12:14 AM

A number of things to consider here:

Wiring directly into the existing distribution panel will not work. You are going to have to wire in a sub panel for all the 120 items you want to use.

Running that big of a microwave for any length of time is going to drain a lot from the batteries. I have 785 watts of solar and 780 AH of batteries and still use the generator for the microwave.

You should be able to get by with a 2000 watt inverter with no problem. If don't hook up the microwave you should be able to get by with less.

As far as the choice between a standalone inverter and a inverter/charger combo there are those that will point that converter/charger has a reputation to go bad unexpectedly. Which would mean replacing a pricey inverter/charger as opposed to just a converter/charger. Another thing to check out is most manufacturers recommend not to replace a converter/charger with one that is more than 10 to 20 amps more powerful than the one you are replacing. I see that Magnum that was referenced in an earlier post is rated at 125 amps. It would be wise to check and see what is in your unit now and then contact the manufacturer to get their guidance.
In your question #2 you stated that you already have 2 (OEM and Morningstar).
Are you referring to your Morningstar MPPT Solar Charge controller? If so that has nothing to do with an inverter! If the OEM you are referring is the converter/charger that your rig came with an its working fine then why replace it just buy a straight inverter
In your question #3 if you are referring to a transfer switch, some require an external transfer switch some have it built in. Its sometimes referred to as a pass through switch or simply as a built in transfer switch. When you are deciding on which inverter to buy that is something you will have to determine
Its your money but that Magnum in the other post way more than you needs dictate and 3 times the money.
Just my opinion, but its based on having a 5th wheel which also has a residential refrigerator to power and I get along fine with 2000 watt inverter. Actually I was doing it on 1000 watt originally.

drdarrin · 07-03-2016, 08:29 AM

Thank you for taking the time for such a lengthy and informative response.
Much food for thought!

So, which inverter did you choose for your application?

nawhite · 07-07-2016, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer69

A number of things to consider here:
Running that big of a microwave for any length of time is going to drain a lot from the batteries. I have 785 watts of solar and 780 AH of batteries and still use the generator for the microwave.

You should be able to get by with a 2000 watt inverter with no problem. If don't hook up the microwave you should be able to get by with less.

I'm curious what you're running that prohibits you from using the microwave (or do you run it for 30 minute periods?) We have less solar (660 W) and less storage (~500AH) and run the microwave a few times a day for up to 10 minutes at a time with no problem?

For the OP, I use a Victron 3000W Multiplus inverter charger (https://www.victronenergy.com/invert...48v-800va-3kva). Works great, has all the benefits of the Magnum Hybrid inverters but it is a bit cheaper (though it's still in the super heavy duty realm of inverters). I got it because I could find it new on Craigslist for 1/3 of the MSRP.

The if you get a Victron or one of the hybrid Magnums, they are capable of just being a power distribution center so you never need to worry about transfer switches again. They basically turn your batteries into Uninterruptible Power Supplies. Have shore power, they'll charge. Lose shore power they'll invert. Need 30 amps but only have a 15 amp hookup, they'll take what they can from the hookup and use the inverter to make up the difference. Very slick.

HHIDan · 07-07-2016, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drdarrin

You weren't kidding about price. Theirs was $700 less than anywhere else I've priced that inverter. Thanks for the tip. Decision made. MSH3012M is on the way.

I was torn between the 2812 and the 3012 (and yes I bought at Imarine for best price and top notch service), you picked the 3012 so keep in mind when wiring the AC side that this is a hybrid. It will take 30 amps from shore and as much as 30 amps more from the battery bank to feed up to 60 amps on the AC out side.

I also recommend wiring a Battery monitoring kit while you're at it ME-BMK.

I imagine you bought the ME-ARC5 remote? And a fuse holder + fuse?

jharrell · 07-07-2016, 05:46 PM

One thing I like about my Magnum 3000 Hybrid with solar is that it detects the solar charger and once the batteries are at full charge will start drawing the excess solar power and inverting it lower your draw on shore or generator. Its called Load Support VDC. Might as well do something useful with all that solar if the batteries are charged.

Only downside if you want to call it that is it detect my alternator too so if I leave the inverter section on while on the road it will start taking up to about 100 amps from the alternator if the A/C is on! Kinda cool but probably not good for it, just have to remember to shut down the inverter if the gen is on. Probably should wire the A/C separate but my coach is 30 amps and it was easier just to run the whole thing through it.

drdarrin · 07-07-2016, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nawhite

I got it because I could find it new on Craigslist for 1/3 of the MSRP.

If I could find that kind of deal, I'd take it too. I love Craigslist. That's where I found my 2, 260W solar panels, for $60 each.

Well, as often happens, calmer heads thought about that $1800.00 purchase, plus the fuse holder and fuse and that order got cancelled. We don't need a 3000W hybrid inverter, as nice as it would be to have. So, instead, I got a Xantrex HFS 2055, including fuse holder and fuses, for less than 1/2 the cost. Also from iMarine.

Our 5er has 50A service and we are pretty conservative on what we use. (that may change a little now that we have solar). We don't have a second AC, don't use the AC water heater, ever, run the Norcold on LP and only run the fireplace to keep the chill off at night when we're in Quartzite, on shore power, in the winter. A 2000W inverter will handle our heaviest load, the microwave, for 5-10 minutes, with capacity to spare. That eliminated the "need" for a 3000W inverter.

So my latest dilemma has been how to wire up the inverter AC output to the existing distribution panel so that shore AC and inverter AC absolutely positively never come together. And I think I figured it out, with some help from the internet, using 2, 30A 3-Way switches.

I will be running this by a licensed electrician before I actually install it. If anyone else reading this wants to copy this idea, I suggest you do the same! Depending on his input, this may or may not actually get installed.

Our distribution panel (PD4590) has split inputs with L1 from the existing 50A service powering one side and L2 powering the other. The converter built into this unit will be disconnected but not removed.

Each 3-way has a common and two inputs, T1 and T2. The existing L1 connection on the distribution panel will be moved to T1 on one of the switches and L2 will be moved to T1 on the second switch. The AC output from the inverter will be connected to T2 on both switches. Common on one switch will be connected where L1 was originally connected and the common from the second switch will be connect where L2 was. So, with this configuration, unless the switch fails internally, L1 and L2 will never connect either with each other or with the Inverter AC output.

Well, that's the plan. Other than the obvious discrepancy between the existing 50A service and the 30A switches, anyone have any thoughts or suggestions.... beside I'm crazy, which is a given.

Roy

Dick1142 · 07-07-2016, 08:11 PM

I installed a 1200 Watt AIMES PSW. Very reasonable price and seems to work great. I have installed it as a dedicated inverter for my residential refrigerator.

HHIDan · 07-08-2016, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drdarrin

Our 5er has 50A service and we are pretty conservative on what we use...

So my latest dilemma has been how to wire up the inverter AC output to the existing distribution panel so that shore AC and inverter AC absolutely positively never come together. And I think I figured it out, with some help from the internet, using 2, 30A 3-Way switches.

I will be running this by a licensed electrician before I actually install it. If anyone else reading this wants to copy this idea, I suggest you do the same! Depending on his input, this may or may not actually get installed.

Our distribution panel (PD4590) has split inputs with L1 from the existing 50A service powering one side and L2 powering the other. The converter built into this unit will be disconnected but not removed.

Each 3-way has a common and two inputs, T1 and T2. The existing L1 connection on the distribution panel will be moved to T1 on one of the switches and L2 will be moved to T1 on the second switch. The AC output from the inverter will be connected to T2 on both switches. Common on one switch will be connected where L1 was originally connected and the common from the second switch will be connect where L2 was. So, with this configuration, unless the switch fails internally, L1 and L2 will never connect either with each other or with the Inverter AC output.

Well, that's the plan. Other than the obvious discrepancy between the existing 50A service and the 30A switches, anyone have any thoughts or suggestions.... beside I'm crazy, which is a given.

Roy

So basically you will switch L1 between shore and inverter and L2 between shore and "no power".

First comment is your coach is wired for 50A which is 50A on each of L1 and L2 which is 100Amps total so you can't use 30A switches. You need to use everything 50A rated including the wiring.

Secondly, what you are trying to do manually is what the Magnum does automatically with a internal switch. Much simpler and automatic.

Third and most important, when you connect shore and your switch is in inverter position you will end up with AC from shore (L1) and AC from inverter (L2) in the same panel which I believe is not up to code. It's why coaches use a sub panel for inverted plugs.

Fourth, the Magnum would probably have been a better three stage charge for your batteries.

alvo · 07-14-2016, 10:45 PM

All my outlets are wired on one leg of the distribution panel, the microwave and AC are on different ones. That allowed be to add an automated transfer switch and detect when there was shore power and when there wasn't and change over to the inverter when it was needed. I got a Tiger Claw 1500 watt pure sine wave inverter because it was cheap ($199) and had good reviews regarding build quality and actually being close to advertised specs. It powers the refrigerator, television, computer, network, cell phone chargers, an air purifier, and a fan.

Training Wheels · 07-14-2016, 11:08 PM

I bought a Magnum 3012 hybrid from iMarine. Building system now. Intend to connect it to 600A of lithium from Elite in AZ. I own a Xantrex 1,000W inverter without a charger. One of the biggest mistakes I've made in RVing. Without the charger, its flexibility is very limited. I got close to developing a plan to dedicate it to my 120V only refrigerator; but talking with Jack stopped that idea. Integrating a second inverter with one battery bank either can't be done or is so hard to do it would break my brain. Instead, I'm putting it in my towed Jeep. Why is a question in progress. So far, everything in this overlanding Jeep runs on DC. Unless I take along an induction cooktop, I haven't found many takers. I can recharge everything with 12V, too; but it will be simpler and fewer p&p if I just use their AC plugs.In any event, I'm not worried about its not having a built in charger because my battery will get juice via solar panels and a Hellroaring isolator/combiner.

J Lewis