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Old 08-06-2006, 05:57 PM   #15
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
I have'nt seen Ford, Chevy, Chrysler or even Hyundai advertising a new and improved AC unit as an after thought add on, endorsed by the mfgr. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max49, Simple, There's no room for it.
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Old 08-06-2006, 06:38 PM   #16
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DriVer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
I have'nt seen Ford, Chevy, Chrysler or even Hyundai advertising a new and improved AC unit as an after thought add on, endorsed by the mfgr. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max49, Simple, There's no room for it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Or need
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Old 08-06-2006, 07:21 PM   #17
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Every Chevy suburban I have owned since 1988 (5 of them) have had front and OPTIONAL rear A/c. I get the optional (at extra cost) rear air because I live where it is almost always hot and humid. Perhaps if I lived in Montana, I would not spend the extra $$ for the rear air.

Lets assume Workhorse would make the second evaporator core and second expansion valve an extra cost option, which the coach builder could order and install.

How many orders do you think Workhorse might get? How much more do you think the coach builder would charge US for the additional controls, ducting, and blower which they would have to design into their dashboard. This would, however, provide "zoned" air like some of the higher priced cars offer.

At least the aftermarket kit being discussed here can utilize the existing coach builder's installed equipment. And it seems designed to overcome the shortcomings of the current designs, without requiring the coach builder to modify their dash board design and control systems. ED
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Old 08-07-2006, 12:04 PM   #18
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Let me state first that I think Workhorse has the best gas chassis on the road. But in saying that I would have to agree somewhat with max49. Their are serveral motor home manufacturers doing the final assembly of the dash air and several owners are not happy with it. My air gets cools at about 45 deg. as long as I'm moving but if I stop just for a short while the air temp will jump up to about 60 deg. Workhorse offered an add on condensor and fan upgrade before the Crystal Air. So this leads me to believe that the orginal condensor was not adequate or is getting insufficent air flow to cool properly. Why so much variance in air temp.? Both my vehicles air temp. stays pretty much constant.It can be 95 deg. and the air is still cold so why not my rv air? I don't care who's at fault. My unit is a Newmar. I also feel Newmar is one of the best on the road. So how come two great companys have to have a $1500 plus fix for what should have been better to start with????
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Old 08-07-2006, 01:04 PM   #19
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My unit is a Newmar. I also feel Newmar is one of the best on the road. So how come two great companys have to have a $1500 plus fix for what should have been better to start with???? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Stubborn: I hate to be the bearer of more bad news, BUT, the WCC kit will NOT work on our Newmar units. They specifically state it should not be used with an Evans-Tempcon evaporator unit-and that is what Newmar uses. So, it looks like we got what we got. ED
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Old 08-07-2006, 05:13 PM   #20
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stubborn:
So how come two great companys have to have a $1500 plus fix for what should have been better to start with???? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What you are talking about is a $1400.00 option much the same as Alcoa wheels. There are options that owners can choose if they see a benefit to their ownership experience. It's better to have an option than none at all.

My 1993 Club Wagon Chateau had a rear seat air conditioner that was an option and at the time I paid for this option to be installed. I was glad that I did because the dash air would not have been able to keep up.
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Old 08-07-2006, 05:16 PM   #21
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
I haven't seen Ford, Chevy, Chrysler or even Hyundai advertising a new and improved AC unit as an after thought add on, endorsed by the mfgr </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You can't compare the cabin environment of a passenger vehicle to the large interior volume of a motorhome. My Saturn Vue air conditioner gets so cold I have to turn down the blowers and often have to temper the cold but it's a car.

An X-15 has an air conditioning system that's large enough to cool a small movie theater and this only supported the cockpit environment and a single pilot.

For a few million bucks we could probably install an air conditioning system in your motorhome that will mimic the next ice age.

I spoke with Lonnie Wilson recently a former Workhorse chief engineer, and he said that the cool pack on the W-Series is 40% over what would be required to efficiently cool the engine and support the air conditioning system. If you look under you hood you will see a rubber fabric shield that extends from the top of the radiator to the coach body. This piece must be in place and the holes and or openings in the fabric need to be blocked as much as possible in order to allow as much air as possible to be routed through the cool pack.

Occluded grill opening by screens and or small OEM preferred grill opening also detract from a robust flow of air to the cool pack. Ideally I was shown that if a an enclosure could be built around the sides and top from the front grill opening to the front of the cool pack that the cooling efficiency would increase significantly. Since manufacturers would have to construct this device, they would all be different and we don't see this type of equipment installed.

If you look at a car for example the grill to radiator plenum is so gasketed that there isn't any option for the air to flow around the radiator but must flow through the provided path. This provides an excellent flow of cooling air and the efficiency of the cooling system reaches near maximum.

There are many improvement paths that can be pursued however with the introduction of the Crystal Cool Extreme Air Conditioning kit it applies a strategy that is independent of the coach body construction. Workhorse has therefore made this kit available for us to install on our motorhomes so that our ownership experience can be improved.
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Old 08-07-2006, 06:19 PM   #22
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I could see someone paying $1400 extra for the chassis AC to also have vents to cool the back and theoretically , the entire MoHo. The new Ccrystal air makes no such claims and correct me if I'm wrong but I think it uses the same vents and fan that the MH mfgr puts on. But maybe this one blows cold even in stop and go traffic , just like any AC should if it's working correctly.
My explorer had the optional rear AC too. For that extra $$, it had vents , fan and control switch in the rear and a larger capacity of freon and I don't know what else.
The crystal air sounds like , you just get an AC that works decent. At least who ever buys it will be hoping so.
If I was buying a new Wh MH and the saleman asked me if I wanted to pay $1400 extra for and AC that worked good, I'd say "you mean it does'nt come with AC? " I guess he'd have to say " well it's got AC but it does'nt work very good".
Not very impressive, IMO of course.
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Old 08-07-2006, 08:07 PM   #23
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I can see where a shroud of some kind from the grill to the cool pack would increase air flow while in motion, but how would it direct any more air flow then what the fans are capable of blowing while the rv is stopped. I also don't expect the ac to cool the whole coach but I do expect it to blow cold at all times. I still don't feel that this is to much to expect for factory installed air.
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Old 08-08-2006, 02:16 AM   #24
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stubborn:
I can see where a shroud of some kind from the grill to the cool pack would increase air flow while in motion, but how would it direct any more air flow then what the fans are capable of blowing while the RV is stopped. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You can also see this as being a problem in any vehicle in stop and go traffic conditions. If my Vue isn't moving my A/C performance falls off.

Unlike cars, the Crystal Cool has a second condenser mounted horizontally under the radiator support and it also features 2 fans that actually direct the air flow through the condenser and upward into the engine compartment. (4 total) If you are sitting in traffic, it doesn't take very much imagination to see the secondary benefit of the added condenser fans.
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Old 08-08-2006, 06:12 PM   #25
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Driver, I just have to ask, do those 2 additional fans make as much noise as the first 2? If they do, it'll scare the heck out of some people, thinking it's about to blow up.
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Old 08-08-2006, 07:09 PM   #26
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
Driver, I just have to ask, do those 2 additional fans make as much noise as the first 2? If they do, it'll scare the heck out of some people, thinking it's about to blow up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max49, The fans are under the radiator and are practically inaudible. You must live a very quiet life. Mechanical and electrical equipment will make some type of sound when they come on line. The next time you're out at the air port see if you can get those folks to quiet down those jet planes.
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Old 08-09-2006, 04:54 PM   #27
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Driver, I don't agree with you much but I like you.
I like a quiet engine, but I've been in heavy highway construction all my life. They're not all that quiet.
However, surely you're not saying that when the fans come on in our 8.1's, you can't hear them roaring?
I don't even hear all that great but my engine sounds like its reving about 5000 RPM,s when they kick on. I'm getting used to it now, but I still glance down at the tach when the fans kick in. Reminds me of downshifting from OD to 2nd gear.
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Old 08-09-2006, 05:33 PM   #28
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't even hear all that great but my engine sounds like its reving about 5000 RPM,s when they kick on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

MAX 49: please excuse me for butting in to your fun with DriVer, BUT I think you are confusing the VERY noticable noise which results from the main FAN (singular) which cycles on and off with a temperature sensative clutch. The A/C condensor fans (2) are electrically driven and make almost no noise.

To prove my point, go stand in front of the open "hood" of your coach, with the motor warmed up to operating temp, and with the A/C turned on. You will see that both fans are running, and making very little, if any, noise. If you have someone turn off the A/C you "should" see these two fans slow down, but they "may" not completely stop. This is because the "loud" FAN behind the Radiator, is pulling through just enough air to keep them turning. You probably won't be able to hear the big FAN's roar while stopped, but it is very noticible when you are running down the road and need the extra boost of cooling air thru the radiator-when the clutch kicks in. ED
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