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Old 10-15-2016, 11:39 PM   #29
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A couple of things, not sure how important. Certainly not wanting to poop on your parade, but sitting here with my mouth shut doesn't sound like a very good plan either.

First, I would confirm the tow capacity. Ours, which is a near twin to the one you're talking about (and the one Bruceisla had), is rated at 4k. Yours might be 10k, but I'd want to know for sure prior to towing an Envoy. Knowing ours as I do, I'd want that assurance in writing. If you have the inclination to get down and look yourself, ours still has the rating tag right on the hitch.

Second, Endeavors, to my knowledge, have aluminum roofs (not fiberglass). Again, not sure how important that is, as the alum. has a great design with a great track record. Check the 4 corners, where the roof metal wraps over the side and joins the front and rear caps. Both the one Bruceisla had, and ours (which are twins) had a little trouble there, resulting in the metal pulling loose right there. While you're at it, you might have a look at the bottom corners of the windshield as well. If they're all gobbed up with silicone, the glass is going to need to be reset at minimum.

Last, you mentioned an amount you need to get financing for. Assuming you're paying that or more for it, you might want to do some investigating regarding what other Endeavors like this are selling for. We paid considerably less than that 5 years ago.... and it was a clean low mileage (47k) coach as well - w/50 hours on the gen set.

Maybe note worthy as well (your call), the shiny finish on the MH could be a commercial floor wax. that was known as Red Max Pro, now called something else that escapes me. There's much written on the topic and you can look into that if you like. I mention it here in case you're of the notion that finish adds some value to this coach. If it does, it shouldn't be much. You could do this yourself in a matter of a few hours. My experience with it, in long term exposure to the sun, has been mixed at best.

Again, not trying to poop on a parade, just provide a heads up. -Al
Do you find the 275hp engine is powerful enough? Since yours is almost my twin, I could really use knowledge about handling, maintenance, quirks etc...

Thanks
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Old 10-15-2016, 11:57 PM   #30
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Jim,

I appears you have a good grasp on what is needed. You should do just fine.
HR made a very nice DP in those years.

We used to have a rear radiator Rexhall (36' 22000 GVWR) and I did not think the rear radiator setup was that bad. It eliminated the hydraulic drive for the side mounted radiator and had a simple fan hub. I could also stand up alongside the engine on the passenger side (squeeze) but once there I could check lots of stuff on top and adjust the belts etc.

Maybe you have such access? We got between 9-11 mpg with the 5.9 ISB. Rated at 260HP and 560ft lbs

Good luck and have fun!
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Old 10-16-2016, 05:14 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahicks View Post
A couple of things, not sure how important. Certainly not wanting to poop on your parade, but sitting here with my mouth shut doesn't sound like a very good plan either.

First, I would confirm the tow capacity. Ours, which is a near twin to the one you're talking about (and the one Bruceisla had), is rated at 4k. Yours might be 10k, but I'd want to know for sure prior to towing an Envoy. Knowing ours as I do, I'd want that assurance in writing. If you have the inclination to get down and look yourself, ours still has the rating tag right on the hitch.

Second, Endeavors, to my knowledge, have aluminum roofs (not fiberglass). Again, not sure how important that is, as the alum. has a great design with a great track record. Check the 4 corners, where the roof metal wraps over the side and joins the front and rear caps. Both the one Bruceisla had, and ours (which are twins) had a little trouble there, resulting in the metal pulling loose right there. While you're at it, you might have a look at the bottom corners of the windshield as well. If they're all gobbed up with silicone, the glass is going to need to be reset at minimum.

Last, you mentioned an amount you need to get financing for. Assuming you're paying that or more for it, you might want to do some investigating regarding what other Endeavors like this are selling for. We paid considerably less than that 5 years ago.... and it was a clean low mileage (47k) coach as well - w/50 hours on the gen set.

Maybe note worthy as well (your call), the shiny finish on the MH could be a commercial floor wax. that was known as Red Max Pro, now called something else that escapes me. There's much written on the topic and you can look into that if you like. I mention it here in case you're of the notion that finish adds some value to this coach. If it does, it shouldn't be much. You could do this yourself in a matter of a few hours. My experience with it, in long term exposure to the sun, has been mixed at best.

Again, not trying to poop on a parade, just provide a heads up. -Al
Hey Al ! I had forgotten that! It's caused by rivet failure ... corrosion of the rivet until the head pops off. It occurs where the roof wraps down to meet the fiberglass sidewall and is covered by the vinyl trim.
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Old 10-16-2016, 07:27 AM   #32
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Jim, hopefully you're inviting a 3rd party (independent) in for an inspection (not somebody working for the dealer!). Make that DOT code for each tire a request on his "to do" list. Older tires can be dressed up to look like new (kinda like the sides of this coach). Tread wear is not a very good indicator of tire condition either. -Al
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:14 AM   #33
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Insurance is looking like 657.00 a year full comp/collision. 1k deductible, but zero deductible on windshield. Doesn't have uninsured motorist property damage - that seems weird.

Thanks all - heading out to the lot to do a deep dive on systems right now
Uninsured property damage is not available in all states... I don't know off the top of my head which states allow it and which ones don't.

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Old 10-16-2016, 10:19 AM   #34
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Oh yeah. Both a house inspector and a chassis guy. I am waiting for the dealer to tell me they are done prepping and inspecting - they have promised me a copy of the full inspection report - which I will give to the inspectors to confirm 😀

I know almost all salesman say anything they can to get your money but if I catch a lie - usually a significant one - I tend to move on and tell them why!

I try to be honest in my everyday dealings and try to give my money to people and groups that I feel are the same way!
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:29 AM   #35
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A short note on tow ratings. Tow rating and hitch rating are NOT the same thing. Your chassis will have two factory supplied weight ratings GVW (Gross vehicle weight) and GCVW (Combined Gross Vehicle Weight) May or may not have R for registered included.


In order to tow 10,000 pounds, the difference between the GVW and CGVW must be 10,000, AND you need a 10,000 rated hitch. You very very rarely (if ever) find a 10,000 rated tow capacity on an RV chassis with only a single axle. The vast majority of single axle RV chassis have a tow capacity of 5,000 or less. Putting a 10K hitch on one of these chassis does NOT give you the ability to safely tow 10K, only a false illusion.
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:56 AM   #36
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Uninsured property damage is not available in all states... I don't know off the top of my head which states allow it and which ones don't.

(Retired/permanent sabbatical insurance agent)
thanks for that info. So if someone without insurance causes damage to the RV my insurance wouldn't cover my damage?
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Old 10-16-2016, 11:00 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by TVforMyRV View Post
A short note on tow ratings. Tow rating and hitch rating are NOT the same thing. Your chassis will have two factory supplied weight ratings GVW (Gross vehicle weight) and GCVW (Combined Gross Vehicle Weight) May or may not have R for registered included.


In order to tow 10,000 pounds, the difference between the GVW and CGVW must be 10,000, AND you need a 10,000 rated hitch. You very very rarely (if ever) find a 10,000 rated tow capacity on an RV chassis with only a single axle. The vast majority of single axle RV chassis have a tow capacity of 5,000 or less. Putting a 10K hitch on one of these chassis does NOT give you the ability to safely tow 10K, only a false illusion.
ugh - so I may need a different toad or a different MH I will confirm the weights and hitch type and decide from there
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Old 10-16-2016, 11:39 AM   #38
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Do you find the 275hp engine is powerful enough? Since yours is almost my twin, I could really use knowledge about handling, maintenance, quirks etc...

Thanks
Sorry, missed this until now. In our case, I feel the 275 has plenty of power, even w/toad. In the mountains, we are in the middle of the pack, and generally just tuck into the right lane running right with and watching the trucks for heads up hints (at 65mph or so). Note though, that ours is a Cat, with a few more cubic inches of displacement that might give it a little more grunt than the Cummins "B" engine. How significant that is is purely subjective, I'm sure. In that vein, note as well, that the Endeavor series has an all aluminum superstructure (ok majority alum. if you're into splitting hairs). Point here being they are significantly lighter than many/most other coaches in this class/size range - a major contributing factor when it comes to the adequacy of it's 275hp. I think we're only 23k loaded. Others can be 29-30k.

Regarding handling, it did take some getting used to. Several thousand miles actually. At first, you are your own worst enemy, over correcting, and correcting unnecessarily. It has to do with the altitude of your butt. In a Class A like this, your butt is easily 3 times higher than a car or even a pick up. When you hit a slight side to side undulation in the pavement, your butt will move from side to side 3 times further than it might over that same irregularity while driving a car. Normal driving habits would have you feeding a steering correction without even thinking about it under those conditions. The MH, not really needing ANY input at this point, is happy to oblige your input, with an unnecessary correction, leading to a second or third correction to counter the 1st one.....

Bottom line, even if all is working perfectly, they have a top heavy feel that takes some getting used to (ALL of them, not just this one). Once there, passing and being passed by large trucks, and most other driving conditions, it handles easily. The exception being, we recently (a couple of weeks ago) made a return trip from out West across I-90. 3 days of big crosswinds, 25-35mph. gusting to 50, had us slowing from our normal 65mph pace considerably as the winds accelerated into the afternoon. Those are rides you'll remember....

We're pushing 100k now, and chassis maintenance has been routine. The coach part, you need to keep in mind the age of this thing (unscheduled maintenance). Sealants are getting old, brittle, and drying out. I went completely through ours, a little at a time the first year or so, including pulling and resealing all the windows (some showed sign of light leakage), replacing the shower skylight (cracked), and doing a total reseal of the roof (wasn't bad, more just cuz). Essentially, we're as waterproof as we were when new. Something REALLY important on a coach this age.

Appliances, as well as the generator, have been flawless. All are original - except for the refer cooling unit. That's been replaced. -Al
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Old 10-16-2016, 12:15 PM   #39
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Thanks AL - really appreciate the detail. I wanted diesel for the heavier chassis and better handling - towable weights and capacities.

I know the prices can be manageable for repairs if I do the major / must do items right away and the littler things a little at a time. I am most concerned with chassis/safety/mechanical items and fire hazards. Everything else will have to take a back seat ��

Thanks again.
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Old 10-16-2016, 12:17 PM   #40
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Oh - and I want to say thank you to everyone on IRV2 for all your great help!
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Old 10-16-2016, 12:32 PM   #41
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Oh - and I want to say thank you to everyone on IRV2 for all your great help!

You are very welcome. As Al said, the Endeavor is rather nimble. Also, on mine, the aluminum roof was obvious. Seam running fore/aft covered with Eternabond ...can't miss it .... looks like a flat spine. As I mentioned, if the A/C units are original, budget $2000 for the pair (eventually).

BTW, as Al said, the jacks are way down on the floor between the wall and captains chair ... easy to miss. I rarely use jacks ... I just find a level site.
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Old 10-16-2016, 12:47 PM   #42
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You are very welcome. As Al said, the Endeavor is rather nimble. Also, on mine, the aluminum roof was obvious. Seam running fore/aft covered with Eternabond ...can't miss it .... looks like a flat spine. As I mentioned, if the A/C units are original, budget $2000 for the pair (eventually).

BTW, as Al said, the jacks are way down on the floor between the wall and captains chair ... easy to miss. I rarely use jacks ... I just find a level site.
my DW said she saw the leveling jacks switches on the dash. I will find them these are manual not auto leveling I guess. How, if you need to use them, do you verify level? Put a small level on the kitchen counter and adjust jacks until level?

Is there a specific process for jacks down? I don't know if it has the 4 corner jacks or tri with the single jack in the middle front. I heard raising the front first is best to keep from popping windshields out?

Also - this thing is sitting there for probably weeks at a time all raised up to ride height. Is that bad for these things? Should the air be dumped? It does tell me there are no leaks though
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