Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > iRV2.com General Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-14-2015, 05:12 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
Old Scout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,929
"really....small wiring"-- anything smaller than 10 ga for 30 amp is too small.....
__________________

__________________
Old Scout
2003 40' MDTS
Garden Ridge, Texas
Old Scout is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-14-2015, 05:59 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
LakeKerrGuy's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Florida Cooters Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salt Springs, FL
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunset444 View Post
The extension cord from the trailer to house should be at least 15 amp min and 14 guage...is 14 GUAGE high enough? can anyone advise on this please
No. If your intent, and it appears to be, is to pull 16 amps (which is the most you can pull on a 20 amp breaker) all circuit components must be capable of carrying the load - and a 14 awg cord ain't it.

I would NOTinstall any 15 or 20 amp receptacle outside that is not a GFCI. It is too easy to plug something other than the RV into it. DO NOT SIMPLy REPLACE THE GFCI WITH A STANDARD RECEPTACLE.

If you elect to stay with the 20 amp circuit, I believe you should replace the 20 amp GFCI receptacle with a 20 amp twist lock. Hope you understand the circuit is more than just the receptacle. It begins at the distribution panel at a 20 amp over current device (breaker or fuse); includes the wire (at least 12 awg); and the receptacle.
__________________

__________________
Jack & Beverly
1999 National Tradewinds 7371; Cat 3126; 6 Speed Allison; 7.5 KW Onan; Freedom 20
2012 Nissan Versa on a EZE Tow
LakeKerrGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2015, 06:10 PM   #45
Senior Member
 
LakeKerrGuy's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Florida Cooters Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salt Springs, FL
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by arktvlr View Post
In our state code allows outside installation of non-GFCI receptacles.
You might want to check the size of wire running from your breaker to the
receptacle and see if it will carry 30 amp by simply changing the breaker
and installing a standard receptacle. Would really have to be small wiring
to not carry 30 amp.

This is a very bad idea. Do not do this.

Also, The National Electrical Code requires a GFCI on all 15 and 20 amp outdoor receptacles. Emphasis is on NATIONAL
__________________
Jack & Beverly
1999 National Tradewinds 7371; Cat 3126; 6 Speed Allison; 7.5 KW Onan; Freedom 20
2012 Nissan Versa on a EZE Tow
LakeKerrGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2015, 08:17 PM   #46
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeKerrGuy View Post
This is a very bad idea. Do not do this.

Also, The National Electrical Code requires a GFCI on all 15 and 20 amp outdoor receptacles. Emphasis is on NATIONAL


For our edification, please advise why this is such a bad idea, and also please go to the trouble of stating chapter where NATIONAL code requires
GFCI plugs on ALL exterior plugs.

If wiring would support 30 amp service, he would naturally install a standard 30-amp RV plug. I own an RV park and have NEVER seen a GFCI 30-amp RV plug.

Anxiously awaiting your response.
__________________
arktvlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2015, 08:55 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
LakeKerrGuy's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Florida Cooters Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salt Springs, FL
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by arktvlr View Post
For our edification, please advise why this is such a bad idea, and also please go to the trouble of stating chapter where NATIONAL code requires
GFCI plugs on ALL exterior plugs.

If wiring would support 30 amp service, he would naturally install a standard 30-amp RV plug. I own an RV park and have NEVER seen a GFCI 30-amp RV plug.

Anxiously awaiting your response.
It is a terrible idea because you wrote, "You might want to check the size of wire running from your breaker to the
receptacle and see if it will carry 30 amp by simply changing the breaker
and installing a standard receptacle."

Maybe I'm wrongly reading what you wrote. To me it says, check the wire ampacity by changing the breaker. How's that going to tell you the safe current carrying capacity of the conductor? You going to keep changing the breaker until the wire starts to melt?

I did NOT say a GFCI is required on ALL outside receptacles. I said 15 and 20 amp receptacles. Read it again...
__________________
Jack & Beverly
1999 National Tradewinds 7371; Cat 3126; 6 Speed Allison; 7.5 KW Onan; Freedom 20
2012 Nissan Versa on a EZE Tow
LakeKerrGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2015, 07:40 AM   #48
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeKerrGuy View Post
It is a terrible idea because you wrote, "You might want to check the size of wire running from your breaker to the
receptacle and see if it will carry 30 amp by simply changing the breaker
and installing a standard receptacle."

Maybe I'm wrongly reading what you wrote. To me it says, check the wire ampacity by changing the breaker. How's that going to tell you the safe current carrying capacity of the conductor? You going to keep changing the breaker until the wire starts to melt?

I did NOT say a GFCI is required on ALL outside receptacles. I said 15 and 20 amp receptacles. Read it again...
LAKEKERRGUY, I don't consider myself totally stupid, and would never suggest anyone install a larger circuit breaker without first assuring the wire size would carry the higher amperage.
To clarify what I meant:
(1) check size of wire from breaker to outlet.
(2)If that wire is sufficient to carry 30 amps,
(3) replace the 20 amp breaker with 30 amp
(4) What I didn't say: Install a 30-amp RV PLUG.

That would certainly be my approach.
If the wire size is NOT sufficient, then I would check with an electrician
to see if he can pull larger wire, if possible. Why settle for trying to run a 30-amp RV on 20-amp service?????

Still don't believe the NATIONAL code requires ALL 15 & 20 amp exterior receptacles to be GFCI.
__________________
arktvlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2015, 09:42 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
jerichorick's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Full-timer/volunteer w/SOWERS
Posts: 3,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by arktvlr View Post
In our state code allows outside installation of non-GFCI receptacles.
You might want to check the size of wire running from your breaker to the
receptacle and see if it will carry 30 amp by simply changing the breaker
and installing a standard receptacle. Would really have to be small wiring
to not carry 30 amp.
What state are you in? The National Electrical Code is what determines this criteria. Just swapping a breaker won't ever cut the mustard. At best he has 12AWG size and that is rated for a 20A breaker at max in the usual house wiring situation. 10 gauge is the minimum needed for a 30A service with the correct outlet attached.

Please, be careful with your modifications. What may seem to work may be very dangerous in the actual application process. The code was established and is constantly being updated to prevent unnecessary harm to person and property by those applying home brewed methods. When in doubt we have the code as a source for good and safe practices.

Happy and safe trails to you.

Rick Y
__________________
Rick & Melissa Young & Dawson, 2011 Itasca Meridian 40U, Freightliner XCL, Cummins ISL 380HP/DEF, Allison 3000 MH, 2014 Honda CR-V, SMI AF1, Blue Ox tow equip., TST 507 TPMS, TruCenter steering control, Hughes auto transformer.
Servants On Wheels Ever Ready. Best job we ever paid to do . (full time volunteers)
jerichorick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2015, 11:28 AM   #50
Registered User
 
tbbg II's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mooresville IN
Posts: 230
A ground fault interrupter compares the current draw of the hot side to that of the neutral side of the circuit. If there is more than a few milliamp difference, it opens (trips) the circuit. Often the leak goes out the ground wire, but it can leak directly to ground (dirt, mud, earth, the lake, etc.) or another circuit.


Most GFCI's are rated for 15 amp, some a 20 amp rating. However, most outlets wired in parallel to either can carry a 20 amp rating. The logic of this evades me. One can purchase GFCI circuit breakers that mount in the breaker box pretty much like any other breaker, except there is one more connection to make. These can be obtained in 30+ amp ratings.


Some have stated MH's cannot be connected to a GFCI. On the surface, that makes no sense. If there is a "leak" in the circuitry that trips one of these devices, then a problem exists within the MH. It may be a common situation, and it may not be a lethal problem.


I won't argue whether or not it makes sense for outdoor outlet GFCI's, but I do wonder how my parents lived to old age without these devices.


I try to be as safe as prudent given a set of circumstances, but sometimes I just gotta have a raw oyster.
__________________
tbbg II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2015, 12:03 PM   #51
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by arktvlr View Post
Still don't believe the NATIONAL code requires ALL 15 & 20 amp exterior receptacles to be GFCI.
Section 210.8(A)(3) requires all outdoor 15 and 20 amp, 125 volt receptacles, including under the eaves, be GFCI protected, with the exception of dedicated branch receptacles for fixed snow melting or de-icing equipment which are not readily accessible.

Ray
__________________
eaglestar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2015, 05:47 PM   #52
Senior Member
 
LakeKerrGuy's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Florida Cooters Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salt Springs, FL
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbbg II View Post


Most GFCI's are rated for 15 amp, some a 20 amp rating. However, most outlets wired in parallel to either can carry a 20 amp rating. The logic of this evades me. One can purchase GFCI circuit breakers that mount in the breaker box pretty much like any other breaker, except there is one more connection to make. These can be obtained in 30+ amp ratings.

I won't argue whether or not it makes sense for outdoor outlet GFCI's, but I do wonder how my parents lived to old age without these devices.

I try to be as safe as prudent given a set of circumstances, but sometimes I just gotta have a raw oyster.
Couple of comments:
I'm a little confused by the first section. The outlet does not determine the rating of a circuit in amperes. It is the over current device (fuse or breaker) and conductor size.
Fifteen amp receptacles can be used on 15 or 20 amp circuits. While a 20 amp receptacle could be used on a 15 amp circuit, it would make no sense. A 15 amp male cord can be plugged into either receptacle. A 20 amp cord will only plug into a 20 amp receptacle.

Our parents may have survived without being electrocuted because there just were not as many outdoor electric appliances in their outdoorsy years. No (or few) electric hedge trimmers, saws, drills, lawn mowers, weed eaters, edgers, etc.

I'm not going to touch the need for oysters.
__________________
Jack & Beverly
1999 National Tradewinds 7371; Cat 3126; 6 Speed Allison; 7.5 KW Onan; Freedom 20
2012 Nissan Versa on a EZE Tow
LakeKerrGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2015, 05:54 AM   #53
Registered User
 
tbbg II's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mooresville IN
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeKerrGuy View Post
Couple of comments:
I'm a little confused by the first section. The outlet does not determine the rating of a circuit in amperes. It is the over current device (fuse or breaker) and conductor size.
Fifteen amp receptacles can be used on 15 or 20 amp circuits. While a 20 amp receptacle could be used on a 15 amp circuit, it would make no sense. A 15 amp male cord can be plugged into either receptacle. A 20 amp cord will only plug into a 20 amp receptacle.

Our parents may have survived without being electrocuted because there just were not as many outdoor electric appliances in their outdoorsy years. No (or few) electric hedge trimmers, saws, drills, lawn mowers, weed eaters, edgers, etc.

I'm not going to touch the need for oysters.
With all due respect, every GFCI I have installed had either "rated for 15 amps" or "rated for 20 amps" printed right on the box. Don't know if you have actually read the instructions for one of these devices, but some of your comments suggest you either have not or, if you did, didn't understand them.

And I have no doubt the sarcasm was totally lost on you. People who yell in a forum often don't understand sarcasm.

The OP wants to use shore power at his house. He has stated the MH won't tolerate a GFCI circuit. Some people suggest if he installs a standard receptacle it must be GFCI, but it is OK to install a non standard receptacle (30 amp or twist lock 20 amp) without GFCI. Not much logic there in my opinion. You might state it is for the next person who might plug some faulty piece of equipment into that unprotected plug. Really? Its OK for the OP to be "unsafe", but we must protect the next person? It seems he is going to install a non GFCI circuit to use as shore power. Does it really matter what size circuit it is, so long as it keeps his iced tea cold and the batteries charged?
__________________
tbbg II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2015, 07:04 AM   #54
Senior Member
 
LakeKerrGuy's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Florida Cooters Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salt Springs, FL
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbbg II View Post
With all due respect, every GFCI I have installed had either "rated for 15 amps" or "rated for 20 amps" printed right on the box. Don't know if you have actually read the instructions for one of these devices, but some of your comments suggest you either have not or, if you did, didn't understand them.

And I have no doubt the sarcasm was totally lost on you. People who yell in a forum often don't understand sarcasm.
I'm going to make one last comment in this thread. I'll then let others who know what they are talking about try to convince you and others who don't that you are not helping the op and if someone follows some of the poor advice thrown around on this forum regarding electrical, they may get someone killed.

The rating in amps of the receptacle DOES NOT determine the rating of the circuit.

I will put my bona fides in electrical issues up against yours any time.
Forty one years in an electric field; over 20 as a member of the SW Ohio Chapter of IAEI; taught NEC and residential wiring at Vocational School.

I'm done here.
__________________
Jack & Beverly
1999 National Tradewinds 7371; Cat 3126; 6 Speed Allison; 7.5 KW Onan; Freedom 20
2012 Nissan Versa on a EZE Tow
LakeKerrGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2015, 11:10 AM   #55
Senior Member
 
jerichorick's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Full-timer/volunteer w/SOWERS
Posts: 3,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglestar View Post
Section 210.8(A)(3) requires all outdoor 15 and 20 amp, 125 volt receptacles, including under the eaves, be GFCI protected, with the exception of dedicated branch receptacles for fixed snow melting or de-icing equipment which are not readily accessible.

Ray
Thank you, Ray, for the conformation.

Happy trails,
Rick Y
__________________
Rick & Melissa Young & Dawson, 2011 Itasca Meridian 40U, Freightliner XCL, Cummins ISL 380HP/DEF, Allison 3000 MH, 2014 Honda CR-V, SMI AF1, Blue Ox tow equip., TST 507 TPMS, TruCenter steering control, Hughes auto transformer.
Servants On Wheels Ever Ready. Best job we ever paid to do . (full time volunteers)
jerichorick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2015, 01:15 PM   #56
Registered User
 
tbbg II's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mooresville IN
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeKerrGuy View Post
I'm going to make one last comment in this thread. I'll then let others who know what they are talking about try to convince you and others who don't that you are not helping the op and if someone follows some of the poor advice thrown around on this forum regarding electrical, they may get someone killed. A non GFCI circuit whether it is 15, 20, 30 or 50amp has the same inherent risk for the use the OP described. So, if one is acceptable, all must be acceptable. Please note I did state if the MH cannot tolerate hooking up to a GFCI circuit then there is a problem in the MH. If he elects to ignore that, then he alone assumes the risk. I would guess almost everyone who uses shore power connects to a non GFCI circuit. So, please don't quit just yet. Tell us why it is important to do so in this situation.

The rating in amps of the receptacle DOES NOT determine the rating of the circuit. Never said it did. Each reference was to the receptacle.

I will put my bona fides in electrical issues up against yours any time.
Forty one years in an electric field; over 20 as a member of the SW Ohio Chapter of IAEI; taught NEC and residential wiring at Vocational School. OK, here are mine: BSEE, MSEE, PE. Got a paycheck for 35 years doing it.

I'm done here.
Please see above.
__________________

__________________
tbbg II is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using 50 amp service for 30 amp MH 2014-319DSF Class C Motorhome Discussions 5 01-03-2015 09:05 AM
50 amp coach to 30 amp extension to 50 amp house? abarkl RV Systems & Appliances 10 01-02-2015 09:55 PM
30 amp configuration on 50 amp circuit panel TexasTwoStep RV Systems & Appliances 9 12-24-2014 09:03 AM
30 Amp But No 50 Amp Shore Power fixn2gocamp RV Systems & Appliances 27 10-03-2014 05:48 AM
50 amp to 30 amp on surge protector ? TinCanTee iRV2.com General Discussion 6 06-29-2014 05:38 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.