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Old 11-15-2015, 08:41 AM   #29
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Old 11-15-2015, 03:40 PM   #30
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I am assuming you want to run 4 wire (HOT/HOT/Neutral/Safety Ground) at 30 amps instead of 50.. So it would be wired exactly as a 50 amp outlet only with 30 amp breakers and slightly lighter wire..

I would recommend up-grading the wire one size (8 instead of 10GA) but frankly. that is optional and not needed if the run is short (under 50 feet).

YES, it will work.. Evidence and support..

Most Motorhomes have generators.. A common Generator on a 50 amp RV is the ONAN 5500 watt models. They say "50 amp" right on 'em. they come with a pair of 30 amp breakers,, One for each leg.. And I almost never overload mine.. (I do trip ;'em but not due to overload).


Warning: (minor) I had Camping world install an inverter in this beast about a decade ago.. They put both A/Cs on the same leg... I fixed after I got it back. Never count on it being done right less you know how to do it yourself... Always inspect.
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Old 11-15-2015, 04:15 PM   #31
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I just wired in a 50-30-20 amp box for my fifthwheel and my class a. I would listen to Timon as that's just how I wired mine. Although I went one step higher than what the wire run calculator said and used #2 copper wire instead of #4 for my length of run.
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Old 11-15-2015, 05:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
Our rig will.
2 -2000 watt elements in the AquaHot
Electric Floor heating in bath and living room
3 15,000 BTU heat pumps
240 volt dryer
Advantium micro/convection
plus all the other electronics
Maybe but I didn't think he was going to live in it, just store it. Maybe turn on heat or AC but not everything in the rig all at the same time. I assumed, maybe mistakenly, based on going with 30 amp instead of 50 it was just for convenience while stored at home.
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Old 11-15-2015, 05:48 PM   #33
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I started my college training in electrical engineering and quickly learned I didn't understand this stuff! So if you wanted to run a 50 amp service 200 feet, and be able to branch off 6 outlets and lighting in the barn, what size wire would you use?
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Old 11-15-2015, 07:29 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by 70ChevelleSS View Post
Who said you can only use 80% of a breakers capacity? NEMA standards say a 20 amp breaker with a constant 27 amp load must trip in less than 1 hour. At 40 amps it must trip in less than 2 minutes. For a 30 amp breaker and a 60 amp load it must trip in under 4 minutes. At 100% load a breaker can run indefinitely. Where do the standards say you can only use 80% of the capacity?
There are standard (80%) circuit breakers and 100%-rated circuit breakers. The most common and the ones you normally find at Homedepot are typically standard rated. They are designed to cary 80% of their rating continuously and will cary 100% for shorter periods of time but could trip after several hours. The 100%-rated circuit breakers can carry the full 100% load and never trip.

So if you don't know that the breakers are 100%-rated circuit breakers you assume they are standard rated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-JWade View Post
I just wired in a 50-30-20 amp box for my fifthwheel and my class a. I would listen to Timon as that's just how I wired mine. Although I went one step higher than what the wire run calculator said and used #2 copper wire instead of #4 for my length of run.
The OP didn't state the length he was going which is why I posted the link to the wire gauge calculator. Now one can enter the run length and know what wire gauge to use. BTW, the calculator defaults to a 3% voltage drop.
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Old 11-15-2015, 09:26 PM   #35
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Anybody notice the OP hasn't chimed in since his original post?

Length of the run is needed as noted by others. It would be useful if we knew what the OP wanted to be able to run (what is the intended load)?

Personally, if I were to make an outlet bigger than 20 amp, I would go with a single 50 amp 220 volt outlet, not a multiple RV park style box, no need for most folks.

If you want to run wires in conduit, you generally use separate conductors, not a 4 conductor cable, in fact conduit wire fill tables change if you are using a jacketed cable due to heat build up. Individual stranded conductors will be much easier to pull than a jacketed cable.

If one wanted to go with a multiple 20/30/50 amp outlet, a 50 amp main breaker and wire would suffice per most codes (check with your local inspector) simply because is is unlikely all three outlets would be loaded to max simultaneously.
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Old 11-15-2015, 11:06 PM   #36
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[QUOTE=wa8yxm;2826130]I am assuming you want to run 4 wire (HOT/HOT/Neutral/Safety Ground) at 30 amps instead of 50.. So it would be wired exactly as a 50 amp outlet only with 30 amp breakers and slightly lighter wire..

I would recommend up-grading the wire one size (8 instead of 10GA) but frankly. that is optional and not needed if the run is short (under 50 feet).

YES, it will work.. Evidence and support..

Most Motorhomes have generators.. A common Generator on a 50 amp RV is the ONAN 5500 watt models. They say "50 amp" right on 'em. they come with a pair of 30 amp breakers,, One for each leg.. And I almost never overload mine.. (I do trip ;'em but not due to overload).


Warning: (minor) I had Camping world install an inverter in this beast about a decade ago.. They put both A/Cs on the same leg... I fixed after I got it back. Never count on it being done right less you know how to do it yourself... Always







Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigd9 View Post
I started my college training in electrical engineering and quickly learned I didn't understand this stuff! So if you wanted to run a 50 amp service 200 feet, and be able to branch off 6 outlets and lighting in the barn, what size wire would you use?
Do not have calculator handy but a 200 ft run adds additional possible local variants regarding ground rod and possible wire type and maybe a few other unknowns.

Most counties require permit for work over certian amount and others get funny with DIY electrical.

A sub panel is needed and they. Are reasonable, we used a 200 amp sub panel and cost was only about 70 bucks and it came with a good supply of breakers.

For 200 ft aluminum wire may be preferred for cost...utilities usually use it for the drop.

Best to visit your building department and discuss your plans and they will give you guidance to proper wire size for your loads.

Consider a 240 volt 5 hp minimum compressor with 2 20 amp lighting circuits with your 6 15 amp sets of outlets.

There are engineers here that can guide you well but the local inspector has the final say.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:05 AM   #37
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I often run our 50A coach on a 240v/30A (4-wire) hook-up at home. The7200 watts of power is adequate for just ordinary needs. I can exceed 30A on one leg if I try, but I have to use the dryer, water heater and rear a/c all at the same time.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:37 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by YC1 View Post
It is critical the OP fully understands the 30 amp outlet for an RV is not 240 volts.
The OP understands that you should never do 220V to a standard 30A RV receptacle. The OP knows that a 30A RV plug is 120V and isn't a complete electrical noob, but appreciates the warning. :-)

What the OP is thinking about doing:
* 30A 2-pole breaker at the house (30A * 220V = 6600 watts).
* ~100 foot run of copper wire, 4-conductor, solid, 8GA.
* Installed to a "50A" outlet (style) at the RV site. Add a label indicating a 30A limit.
* The OP is aware that the 30A breaker will trip first and no protection is offered by the 50A breaker at the RV.
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Old 11-17-2015, 10:09 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1000rider View Post
The OP understands that you should never do 220V to a standard 30A RV receptacle. The OP knows that a 30A RV plug is 120V and isn't a complete electrical noob, but appreciates the warning. :-)

What the OP is thinking about doing:
* 30A 2-pole breaker at the house (30A * 220V = 6600 watts).
* ~100 foot run of copper wire, 4-conductor, solid, 8GA.
* Installed to a "50A" outlet (style) at the RV site. Add a label indicating a 30A limit.
* The OP is aware that the 30A breaker will trip first and no protection is offered by the 50A breaker at the RV.
cb1000rider

I have seen such a label on the electrical pedestals at more than one COE campground....(Persimmon Hill on Enid Lake in Mississippi for one).
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Old 11-17-2015, 11:13 AM   #40
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Hi, Would be interesting why the OP has difficulty running conduit to his remote location. I understand why he say's dealing with #6 conductors is difficult. I've installed a remote power supply for my RV. Conductor sizefor current is different for copper and aluminum, Aluminum requiring larger gauge because of resistance v/s copper. To make handling the conductors easier you can use "multiple " conductors for each leg. This would make it easier to bend and man-handle the conductors. As mentioned increasing conduit size makes pulling easier. THHN insulated wire slips easier than other plastic insulation. Adding pull boxes in a conduit run makes it easier. Don't forget that there is a limit to the number of bends and radius in a conduit run between boxes.
Following the N.E.C. is a must. Most municipalities follow the NEC but some will stick in their own interpretations. I would go for the 3 pole 4 wire 50 A service. Yes a slight cost diff but as mentioned well worth it. If the OP still wishes to go with the 30A service I would suggest using oversize conduit to handle more conductors to handle 50A in the future when he finds 50A made more sense. :>)
We all made the assumption that his MH has a 120/240 power requirement 3P-4W.

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Old 11-17-2015, 01:16 PM   #41
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Lets see if i understand this correctly; you'll still have 50A stuff.
Receptacle will be a 50A NEMA 14-50R
From it back to the breaker panel, wire will be sized for 30A service
(The wire sizing must include the distance from the receptacle to the RV though.{total run})
Instead of a 100A-double breaker you'll have a 60A double breaker

Your Rv's 50A breakers will be just fine for this, as the circuit up to the RV is protected by the 60A double breaker. Kinda like putting 30PSI into a 50psi hose.

That's what I interpret from all this?
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Old 11-17-2015, 01:51 PM   #42
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We need a rule for IRV2.

Members are not allowed to post answers to electrical questions unless they have worked professionally in the design, installation, or repair of electrical components. We probably will still struggle with what is "right" vs. what will "work", but the threads will be a lot shorter. The rest of youse guys do not need to be guessing about what is right regarding electricity.

We could use a similar rule for the ST/LT tire questions.
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