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Old 11-17-2015, 03:54 PM   #43
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Old 11-17-2015, 04:21 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1000rider View Post

I'm thinking of doing a 30A 220V circuit instead, but don't know if that actually makes sense. ...
This is exactly what I did where I thought I wanted to park the RV, only using 8 gauge and a 30 amp double pole breaker because of the distance.

Later, realizing that was not where I wanted to keep the RV, I did the same thing next to the garage only this time I used a 40 amp double pole breaker because the distance was a lot shorter. Both cases I used the "50" amp 4-wire socket giving me two legs of 30 and 40 amp service, respectively. Now I have two places to park and plug, or have a guest, or two, with RV's, and with very adequate service in either location.

Maybe I can't run two high powered welders at the same time, but I can run everything on the RV at the same time, including both A/C units, the water heater, microwave, and battery charger!

I originally bought 500' of the 8 gauge wire, lots less that just enough #6 for the "50" amps at the first location and there was enough left over for the second location when I decided to do that!

Maybe if you have a decked out Rock Star touring bus you could use the 50 AMPS, otherwise 30 amps will do every thing you need!

H

I am not a professional electrician by any means, but, I did stay at Holiday Inn express once upon a time, I think!

I also studied this in the US Navy "A" school that I attended forty eight years ago!

And... had to explain to my electrician neighbor the difference between a 30A 120v RV plug and 30A 220V welder plug!

That is all!
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Old 11-17-2015, 04:41 PM   #45
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I have run 40amp (2x) over 180ft and never tripped a breaker yet nor I have seen the voltage lower than 115vac with sometimes 3 compressors running (38amps total = 2 basement air compressors and one rooftop compressor). That is all I need
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:26 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Ray,IN View Post
Lets see if i understand this correctly; you'll still have 50A stuff.
Receptacle will be a 50A NEMA 14-50R
From it back to the breaker panel, wire will be sized for 30A service
(The wire sizing must include the distance from the receptacle to the RV though.{total run})
Instead of a 100A-double breaker you'll have a 60A double breaker

Your Rv's 50A breakers will be just fine for this, as the circuit up to the RV is protected by the 60A double breaker. Kinda like putting 30PSI into a 50psi hose.

That's what I interpret from all this?
He wishes to use a double 30 amp breaker if I'm reading him properly You would never feed 30 amp wiring with a 60 or 100 amp breaker only with 30 or smaller. When you talk about ganged breakers you always talk about the amps of only one of them (30 in this case) you never double it.

And for the person who said "unless you have worked" I am a certified electronics technician, Have serviced much of my own gear.. Some professional work (Very little) Designed and built some of my own electroncis Published author in the field.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:51 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by cb1000rider View Post
The OP understands that you should never do 220V to a standard 30A RV receptacle. The OP knows that a 30A RV plug is 120V and isn't a complete electrical noob, but appreciates the warning. :-)

What the OP is thinking about doing:
* 30A 2-pole breaker at the house (30A * 220V = 6600 watts).
* ~100 foot run of copper wire, 4-conductor, solid, 8GA.
* Installed to a "50A" outlet (style) at the RV site. Add a label indicating a 30A limit.
* The OP is aware that the 30A breaker will trip first and no protection is offered by the 50A breaker at the RV.
The OP knows of what he speaks.

You have your reasons/limitations on why you want to use 30A vs a 50A connection. It will work just fine for you and it will be safe based on your descriptions.

One note: Standard voltage is 240V so you will have 7200 watts of power available vs. the 12000 watts available for a 50A service. I surely can manage on the lower wattage in my coach, especially in storage conditions.

Upgrading the wire size to #8 is a good idea due to voltage drops over long distances. There are lots of voltage drop vs. distance calculators on the internet.

And yes, in a prior life, I was an electrician. Recommend all wiring be done to local and NEC codes.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:56 PM   #48
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A professional is anyone who is paid for the task...

Certified or licensed is another thing.

A certified licensed person still can only provide generic information as the enforcement of rules are left to the ruling authority where task is happening.

This thread has gone sideways a bit more than one time likely due to non specific descriptions and miss - understanding of those descriptions that lead to incorrect instructions.

Any circuit is limited to the smallest capacity of any portion.

If any part of the circuit is rated for 10 amps the breaker should not exceed 10 amps for general safety.

There are cases for larger breaker where number 12 wire used (20 amp) with 15 amp outlets and a 20 amp breaker with multiple outlets.

No clue to what NEC specifies there, just have seen it many times.

To the OP using the 50 amp connector with lesser rated conductors will be fine and should be legal if the breaker used is rated for the conductors installed.

You should label outlet as limited to whatever the breaker is.

But that is just a guess so check with your building department to confirm legal so no future issues with insurance or inspections as they could request it be updated.
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Old 11-18-2015, 06:52 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray,IN View Post
Lets see if i understand this correctly; you'll still have 50A stuff.
Receptacle will be a 50A NEMA 14-50R
From it back to the breaker panel, wire will be sized for 30A service
(The wire sizing must include the distance from the receptacle to the RV though.{total run})
Instead of a 100A-double breaker you'll have a 60A double breaker

Your Rv's 50A breakers will be just fine for this, as the circuit up to the RV is protected by the 60A double breaker. Kinda like putting 30PSI into a 50psi hose.

That's what I interpret from all this?
Ray
Correct
However only some of the stuff will be rated for 50A.

The 50A "stuff" will be the 50 ANEMA 14-50R receptacle, the 50A shore power cord and the 50A RV.

The 2 pole circuit breaker protecting that 50A receptacle, (and the power available from each line in that 50A receptacle)... will be 30A.

Mel
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Old 11-18-2015, 07:10 AM   #50
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tons of information about how to do it, so my post is more about whether you can be happy with the results.
FWIW, our MH next to the house is fed by a 20A 120V setup; simple outlet plug with the proper transfers into the coach.

Limits are:
you can use one A/C all summer, not both of them

you can use an A/C and the refer if you've cooled the refer (while cycling the A/C off during the cooling phase)

if it's really hot, you can't use all of the interior lights along with A/C

Nobody lives in, or uses, the coach when it's parked at the house, and the 120V isn't what we'd wish for, but we've found that it does the job of keeping the interior dry and cool. Running other power would require about 150' of cable through the attic, and we've found that it isn't needed.

Your 30A will provide all the power you want for storing the coach.
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Old 11-18-2015, 07:55 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by bamaboy473 View Post
tons of information about how to do it, so my post is more about whether you can be happy with the results.
FWIW, our MH next to the house is fed by a 20A 120V setup; simple outlet plug with the proper transfers into the coach.

Limits are:
you can use one A/C all summer, not both of them

you can use an A/C and the refer if you've cooled the refer (while cycling the A/C off during the cooling phase)

if it's really hot, you can't use all of the interior lights along with A/C

Nobody lives in, or uses, the coach when it's parked at the house, and the 120V isn't what we'd wish for, but we've found that it does the job of keeping the interior dry and cool. Running other power would require about 150' of cable through the attic, and we've found that it isn't needed.

Your 30A will provide all the power you want for storing the coach.
bamaboy473
Well put
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Old 11-18-2015, 02:24 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Ray,IN View Post
Your Rv's 50A breakers will be just fine for this, as the circuit up to the RV is protected by the 60A double breaker. Kinda like putting 30PSI into a 50psi hose.
That's what I interpret from all this?
There will be a 30A double pole breaker upstream. It's kinda like 30psi into a 50psi hose, yes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7ole View Post
Anybody notice the OP hasn't chimed in since his original post?
Sure he has. I'm the OP.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7ole View Post
It would be useful if we knew what the OP wanted to be able to run (what is the intended load)?
37' 5th wheel. Possibly 2 ACs. 99% of the time, just storage. Largely I wanted to make sure that RVs were reasonably "balanced" on the circuit legs, that I wouldn't find that I actually needed 40+ amps to run 2 ACs... Course, as I've got a 5500 watt generator that runs things just fine, it's just a sanity check...


Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7ole View Post
If you want to run wires in conduit, you generally use separate conductors, not a 4 conductor cable, in fact conduit wire fill tables change if you are using a jacketed cable due to heat build up. Individual stranded conductors will be much easier to pull than a jacketed cable.
I don't ever run individual wires. I do oversize the conduit. I recognize what you're saying though.

Why don't I want to run 6 gauge? I've done it before, not a lot of fun, that's all. I don't envision a 3-AC RV, so I just accept the limit of 6000 watts or so. i don't need more than that.
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Old 11-18-2015, 04:57 PM   #53
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We need a rule for IRV2.

Members are not allowed to post answers to electrical questions unless they have worked professionally in the design, installation, or repair of electrical components. We probably will still struggle with what is "right" vs. what will "work", but the threads will be a lot shorter. The rest of youse guys do not need to be guessing about what is right regarding electricity.

We could use a similar rule for the ST/LT tire questions.
I can't agree with this. Just because someone full time job isn't in a area being discussed shouldn't men they can contribute. I'm not an electrician but I have worked with high powered circuits and am well aware of what needs to be done.

Same for lots of others here. Bottom line is that you don't try to do things you are not sure you can handle. In this case were not telling the OP how to do it but why they should do it the the generally acceptable way and shaving a few dollars is not smart in the long run.

As far as an inspector passing or failing the job consider this. If an inspector sees a 50A receptacle at the end with wire sized for a 30A he'll likely fail the job because it's likely someone might change the breaker to a 50A. Inspectors don't like this. Now if you really want to do a run for only 30A then put in a 30A receptacle and make a 120/240 30A to 120/240 50A dog bone. Personal I think that silly and short sighted but it would pass inspection.
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Old 11-18-2015, 05:03 PM   #54
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I agree with Timon. Not saying that those aren't the rules - but my guess is that anyone posting "bad" information probably learned something here... The question was largely "is it practical" or is there something that I'm fundamentally missing and I appreciate the discussion/debate. It's a great forum and we all learn a lot.
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Old 11-18-2015, 05:18 PM   #55
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Agree with those that say to put in a 50 amp setup, even if only just the single 50 amp plug, not the 50 amp campground setup.
Years ago, when we got our first MH (a 17' Type B) I ran a 30 amp setup and have used it ever since, Now that we have the "entertainer coach" I really need to upgrade it to a true 50 amp setup as I can't run both electrical elements in the AquaHot on 3,600 watts. Each element is 2,000 watts and I need both running for colder weather.
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Old 11-18-2015, 05:59 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by cb1000rider View Post
I don't ever run individual wires. I do oversize the conduit. I recognize what you're saying though.
You should be aware that running Romex in a conduit is against code as I understand it. Has to do with heat dissipation calculations. FYI.
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