Community Forums

jimmystoys · 08-04-2018, 08:46 AM

Yes I know these threads about the china bomb St tires will never go away. Just thought it was my turn Lol. Anyways, after another blow out of my ST225/75R 15" Load D. I'm seriously considering going to 16" LT tires, if I can fit them. I don't think, yet, there is a 15" LT that would be comparable in load, that's why the switch to 16". I know I can upgrade to a Load E 15", just not sure if it puts me in 'my' safe zone. I really think the ST tires are under designed, but that's my opinon. I know there's lots of you that have no issues with ST tires. I have had trucks all my life, and trailers. I am an anal driver, I think. I watch, analyze, listen, whatever it takes to make sure I am towing safely. After melting two tires now on my 32' travel trailer in probably not even a year and maybe 1500 miles, I feel a change is needed. Next time maybe I'm not so lucky. For the procrastinators out there or whoever, has anyone really witnessed or experienced as many truck tires blowouts or melt downs as trailer tires??? I know the 'trailer' tire is suppose to be better for maneuvering. They are designed to be more flexible for that I guess. It's not enough for me anymore. Having a tire flex to park is not comparable to having it blow during travel. The trade off is not enough. Has anyone blown a tire a low speed or backing into their stalls?! I hardly think so. I would gladly buy a tire that wouldn't blow at highway speed but blow when I'm at low speed or stressing the tire at maneuvering lol. I'm guessing maybe a lot of you would too! So let me know your thoughts. But really, I would like to hear from the LT crowd. What has been your experience?

Dropthejacks · 08-04-2018, 09:03 AM

I don't see any issue with upgrading to LT tires if you don't mind the cost of the new rims and tires. But I would ask #1 What brand tires did you have that blew out? and #2 Did the second blowout occur from the same side as the first? There are several good ST Tires out there in a 15", including the GY Endurance and the Maxxis. As you said, the GY can be had in a E-load, that's what I installed on ours. Also, if one tire lets go and drops all the weight on the second axle, it will often damage that tire internally as well, causing a failure of the second tire in the short future. Didn't know if that may have been your case. Spend the cash if it makes you feel better about your travels, but I think an upgrade to a quality E-load tire is really all you need.

keymastr · 08-04-2018, 09:23 AM

What tires were on there? How old are they? How often did you check pressure? Do you regularly make a sharp turn to get into your driveway? Ever hit a curb or have to climb one to park?

Trailer tires take lots of abuse and ones that are 5 or 6 years old are pushing the limits even if none of those other factors apply just due to the exposure and long periods of being parked with a load on. I have seen tires survive being scrubbed across the ground so hard the tread was now the sidewall and although the tire did not deflate and appeared normal afterward it would not surprise me to find out there was a problem with that tire soon after. I would think this sort of maneuver would have bad results in an LT tire due to it's construction. Belt separation would be my concern.

If the tires on your WindRiver are the original Marathons they have simply aged out, and the Marathons were not nearly as good a tire as the Endurance or what is available from Maxxis or Sailun.

If it were me, (and it will be in a couple years), I would go with an ST of the next load range up and pick a brand that is available everywhere in case I need to buy one on the road. At this time it would be the Endurance but that may change in a year or two when I am ready to swap them out. Mine was one of the last trailers delivered with Marathons and I will not keep them past 4 years.

MtCamper · 08-05-2018, 06:11 PM

After our second Marathon failure, I replaced the tires on our fifth wheel with Sailun G rated tires. Lots of opinion on trailer tires but as near as I can figure, failure isn't only due to weight. There is a lateral component that causes failure even when you are not overloaded. The heavier load range tire accepts more lateral stress without as many failures. I also invested in TPMS to detect problems early (I hope). I chose not to go with Goodyear due to their insistence that Marathons were great tires. SimpleTire.com. I think they have wheels as well if you choose to go to 16's. Another one to investigate would be the packages from performancetrailerbraking.com.

jimmystoys · 08-06-2018, 11:27 AM

Yes I have the Marathons. My tire examinations are very anal. Tire pressure was at max. I even take temp readings with my gun. This was the same side as last time. I know my trailer was level. I have air bags to compensate, which I do regularly. I tow trailers regularly for work so I'm aware of everything all the time, I think lol. In all the years I have been driving truck I have never blown an LT tire. I have a dump trailer with LT tires. Trailer rated for 12K GVWR. I have unfortunately had it loaded to 15K with busted up concrete at one time. Not proud of the moment. I knew it was overloaded but that's in the past now. I drove my concrete probably 20 miles to unload. And when I mean unload that's backing up into the dump position. I was stressing those tires! That's when I found out the weight. Anyways the tires worked. They were overloaded I could tell but they didn't blow on me. This is just a one off example. This is not how I tow. I just don't think the ST tires are designed well enough, or the industry has the tire rated to close to the GVWR of the trailer and I don't think the tires can take the heat. I have been thinking of the GY Endurance but still think I'm safer with LT's.

VanDiemen23 · 08-07-2018, 12:32 AM

You never mention if you weighed each axle or what your towing speeds are. STs used to be rated only to 55mph - according to the Tire Rack its 65 now.

You could stretch it to 65mph by inflating 10psi over, and to 70 with more pressure and less load. The problem is that the forces conspiring to disassemble the tire go up with the square of speed, and the increased flex heats the tire more. I've never seen the spec on the road temp used in the test, but I bet it's not over 140 deg like we sometimes see in the desert in the summer.

Bottom line: if you are close to the load limit and the speed limit and at full inflation pressure you are likely over-stressing a ST.

LTs work well because they are speed rated to ~106 mph. The sidewalls however are NOT as stiff as STs and less able to resist sway forces and curb abuse. Tight-turning a dual axle trailer is harder on LTs than it is on STs.

LTs are about twice as expensive too.

I'm just going to get bias tires next time. Much tougher tires and all you give up is a mpg or two.

Gary RVRoamer · 08-07-2018, 11:11 AM

In my opinion an ST tire is fine as long as it is properly sized for the axle load and inflated properly (same as any other tire). The only real advantage of an LT is the higher speed rating (typically 77 vs 65 mph), but you pay for that with a lower weight carrying capacity. That's why you generally need a larger tire when converting to LT.

I think most of the bad rap that ST's get is due to the marginal load capacity of the size chosen by the trailer manufacturer, coupled with what is often the cheapest tire around. Couple that with a usage style that stresses even the best tire and its hardly surprising that tires get a lot of complaints.

FastEagle · 08-07-2018, 01:55 PM

Generally there are no LT tire size designations that provide the load capacity of the same size ST tire. Here is an extreme example: ST235/85R16 LRE @ 80 PSI provides 3640# of load capacity. The LT235/85R16 LRE @ 80 PSI provides 3042# of load capacity.

Here is an example of the first obstacle: It’s an Obstacle because all of the manufacturers below are following established tire industry safety standards.

Goodyear: Never fit tires to a vehicle that have less load carrying capacity than required by the Original Equipment Manufacturer.

Michelin: Never choose a tire that is smaller in size or has less load-carrying capacity than the tire that came with the vehicle.

Cooper: The new tires must have a load carrying capacity equal to or greater than the maximum load carrying capacity specified on the tire placard on the vehicle.

Toyo: Any replacement tire must be of a size and load range that will offer equal or higher load carrying capacity compared to the original equipment (OE) tire on the vehicle.

None of the major tire manufacturers will recommend any deviation from the tire design of Original Equipment tire without first getting an approval from the vehicle manufacturer. I doubt you’ll find one that will do that without having offered such an option before the vehicle first sale.

It may be possible to find a scrupleless tire retailer/installer that will install anything you want. Usually that will be at some out-of-the-way flea market.

So, it’s back to page one. You’re the owner. After careful considerations of all the safety precautions found in your vehicle owner’s manual and other established industry standards, it’s your decision to make. Of course that’s not entirely true if your trailer is registered in a state or province that has enforceable vehicle safety laws, that includes tire safety.

kedanie · 08-07-2018, 04:23 PM

So Calvin, here you go again preaching safety of all things, ST tires. Seems to me that your own safety record is pretty dismal with at least 22 ST tire failures. Looks like you have a double standard, one for you and another you made up for others.

Oh, and since you seem to want to talk about laws, which states have put out the tire police? The only law in place is the DOT law stating that vehicle tire capacity mus equal or exceed the GAWR.

Keith

keymastr · 08-07-2018, 07:18 PM

Check the date codes if you use Simpletire.com. Have seen several cases of very old tires being sold through them.

NHRA225 · 08-07-2018, 07:42 PM

Not much different from your case but my Race Trailer @ 10,000 lbs loaded blew GY Marathons many times over the years. LT Tire weren't any different - Just a Light Truck junk Tire- Nothing Special !
The only way to survive tire failure is to # 1 go to 16 in wheels- that opens up a whole new range of tires.
Remember that TT manufactures will Always install the Cheapest they can get by with-- The same apply's with Enclosed Trailers that I have.
My suggestion that Works !
Go with 16 in wheels and a Branded 16 in Tire like 235 R16's 14 ply G Rated Tires. You'll never have another Blowout again !
I' been using Greenball - Towmasters ASC's 235-16's @ 110 psi with great results.

Boogie_ · 08-08-2018, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmystoys

...................................... I'm seriously considering going to 16" LT tires, if I can fit them. I don't think, yet, there is a 15" LT that would be comparable in load, that's why the switch to 16". ................................... I have had trucks all my life, and trailers. I am an anal driver, I think. I watch, analyze, listen, whatever it takes to make sure I am towing safely. After melting two tires now on my 32' travel trailer in probably not even a year and maybe 1500 miles, I feel a change is needed. Next time maybe I'm not so lucky. ................................So let me know your thoughts. But really, I would like to hear from the LT crowd. What has been your experience?

Jimmy, this could be my story almost word-for-word.
Literally raised from a child in the automotive world, own an auto parts store, paint & body shop, car lot, have owned many heavy trailers (car-haulers, etc.) and trucks.

After buying three sets of ST tires for my 5'ver, many singles, annual and bi-annual blow outs, narrowly escaping serious damage to my camper, not to mention the danger involved in replacing a tire on the side of a busy intestate hwy., I stopped beating my head against the wall and upgraded to 16" wheels and LT tires.

I never felt so foolish as the day we mounted the 16" tires on the camper.
The side-by-side comparison of the 15's with the 16's made me feel like a chump for ever getting out on the road with my family with those ST pieces of crap (I cleaned that up for the site moderators)

That was 3 years ago, two trips from SW Louisiana to Disney World, our annual trips to Destin FL, handful of trips to various points in Texas and many short trips here in La.
Not one single problem with tires.

I didn't go to "Tire College", don't know the specs of a half dozen brands of tires, but I know how to take of tires and I what works.

Good luck, happy trails.
Boogie

monkey · 08-08-2018, 10:03 AM

I did not want to spend to replace our 15" wheels for 16" after buying a new 16 5vr.. BUT I did replace the china bombs with Maxxis,,, went from D range to E . (wheels could handle it) Been very happy with them... This with a few trips from AR to AZ, heat and all, along with many shorter trips... And yes I try to watch things closely, temp gun every stop,,, 39 yrs trucker for what its worth. Monkey

xrated · 08-08-2018, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmystoys

Yes I have the Marathons. My tire examinations are very anal. Tire pressure was at max. I even take temp readings with my gun.

You do realize that shooting temperatures with an IR gun is useless as far as actual tire temperatures, right? About the only value in using them is for a quick comparison of temperatures between all four tires....but you are shooting surface temperatures not core temperatures. There is likely a 25-30 degree difference between surface and core.

And I second the "use Maxxis tires" thought. I've used the 8008 Maxxis tires on three different trailers without ever having an issue and would not even consider putting an LT tire in place of a good quality ST rated Maxxis. YMMV!