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Old 09-24-2015, 04:01 PM   #15
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We talked to our local tire guy today. I had to get new tires on my Escape...sigh. The tires on it were Michelins and dry rotted. He made the comment that Michelins dry rotted & cracked quicker than any other tire.

After showing him the pic that I posted in this thread, he agreed that it looked like rivering and that it was pretty common. Our concern is that from the pic, it looks like tire surface is wearing/fraying along that ridge.

He quoted a price for a Yokohama RY 103 Load H 275/70/22.5 tire balanced and mounted at $483.75 plus tax. I can't find prices for this tire listed anywhere on websites (they want you to request a price and I get enough spam and ads now so I'm not filling out the form!) but wondered if that price was in line with what others have paid for that sized tire balanced and mounted.
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:24 PM   #16
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Ok....If that is a bad price...DO NOT TELL ME! We ordered them today and should have them next week.

Now, we need to decide how to balance them. Tire guy suggested beads which is also on the "We Know Nothing About List". We have researched a little but would like more input.

Is a bead a bead or are some beads better than others?
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Old 09-26-2015, 10:00 AM   #17
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Ok....If that is a bad price...DO NOT TELL ME! We ordered them today and should have them next week.

Now, we need to decide how to balance them. Tire guy suggested beads which is also on the "We Know Nothing About List". We have researched a little but would like more input.

Is a bead a bead or are some beads better than others?
Not sure why so many independent tire stores push the "Beads" or "sand" for balance. If the stuff was so good why don't any car companies use the stuff. After all they balance 100% of their tires. maybe there is just better profit for the store.
Anyway if you go that route don't forget to use the special valves that filter the dust so it doesn't destroy a TPM sensor.
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:09 PM   #18
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I put beads in my 22.5s and I love the idea, and so far so good. You never have to rebalance -- I LIKE! Never heard of balancing with sand, but the tire guys said the beads would not interfere with the tpms, but be certain to tell anyone working on these tires that there are beads in there.
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:33 PM   #19
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We saw a guy in June Lake that had sand in all six tires. He had to pay for a guy from Bishop to come up and fix his wouldn't hold air flat. The sand destroyed his valve stem etc and was doing a job on his wheel. A check of the other tires showed the same. He drove it to Bishop to have the sand removed, new valve stems, new fill tubes, balance and trade a bunch of $$$$$.
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:50 PM   #20
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We saw a guy in June Lake that had sand in all six tires. He had to pay for a guy from Bishop to come up and fix his wouldn't hold air flat. The sand destroyed his valve stem etc and was doing a job on his wheel. A check of the other tires showed the same. He drove it to Bishop to have the sand removed, new valve stems, new fill tubes, balance and trade a bunch of $$$$$.

The older balancing powder caused issues with valve cores, so filtered cores were used. The balancing beads have been completely trouble free for me since installed in '09. Dyna beads are the best known brand.

http://www.innovativebalancing.com/index.php


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Old 10-17-2015, 10:21 AM   #21
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Update on the tires.

We put 2 new Yokohama RY103 (275/70R/22.5) tires on the front. The old tires did have significant rivering and more that we could determine from pictures & feeling.

We told the tire guy that we had the coach weighed and the recommendation was 105 lb pressure in the front tires. When we went back to get the coach, he said he had 105 lbs in the front and they squatted down like they were going flat. The sidewall really bulged so he filled them to 120. We decided to see how that worked on our short trip and Gary's verdict is that it handles better (not that handling has been an issue at all) and my verdict is that it's a rougher ride but not terrible.

The tire guy also commented that running tires at lower air pressures contribute to rivering. He said we could probably lower the pressure to 115 and be okay. I don't know if that 5 lb would make that much difference in the ride. He also said that RV tires are softer tires and are prone to rivering more than truck tires. Our new tires are truck tires so if it's true about soft vs. hard, then that may explain some of the rougher ride. Again, it's not horrible but things seemed to have moved around more than usual.
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Old 10-18-2015, 01:15 AM   #22
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"KarenS144".......To start, you did the right thing replacing the front two. The Goodyear G670's are an absolutely useless steer tire because of the "rivering". As drive tires, they are fine and you can probably get another 2-3 years out of the rears without a problem. This helps to break up the financial impact of replacing tires. I have a similar coach and have been laying with front tire pressure since new. It seems 115 is the best choice. The ride at 120 is just too rough, to get a few extra miles out of the front tires.

I sold tires in my younger days. I have complete respect for "Tire Man" as he often comes here and answers tire questions for many. With that said, I will disagree with his and Goodyear's statement that "rivering" is only cosmetic. When a tire wears oddly, like in "rivering" or improper alignment, that portion of the tire no longer makes proper contact with the road surface and "scuffs" the highway as it goes down the road, versus riding on it. Any portion of the tire that "scuffs" wears more quickly than the rest of the tire. I fought "rivering" on my Monaco Diplomat with the Goodyears and found that they did shimmy, vibrate and eventually caused evidence of tread separation near the "rivering".

In my youth, everything got spun balance. Even as I got older I always made sure my tires were spun balance on my RV's. Several years ago I tried beads on the front tires of my Diplomat and loved the ride. I later added Centramatics to the rear and liked those even better. There is a post, discussing Centramatics, currently running. I now run Centramatics on all three axles of my new coach.

Lastly, there was a question posed......if beads are so good, why aren't they putting them in cars. There are a couple of reasons. First, smaller, more precisely made passenger car tires don't need as much weight. When you enlarge that tire to something the size of RV tires, add in large brake drums, wheels and hub assemblies, you're not only balancing the tire, but the entire assembly. Both the beads, to a certain extent and specifically the Centramatics balance the entire assembly. No matter how well you spin balance a tire, it eventually wears and changes balance. Often we go through passenger tires so quickly, relative to RV tires, that we don't notice. We often pick up rocks, mud and other debris in larger tires that can change balance until it wears/falls off and the beads/Centramatics correct for this each time the RV moves.
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Old 10-18-2015, 07:49 AM   #23
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Update on the tires.

We put 2 new Yokohama RY103 (275/70R/22.5) tires on the front. The old tires did have significant rivering and more that we could determine from pictures & feeling.

We told the tire guy that we had the coach weighed and the recommendation was 105 lb pressure in the front tires. When we went back to get the coach, he said he had 105 lbs in the front and they squatted down like they were going flat. The sidewall really bulged so he filled them to 120. We decided to see how that worked on our short trip and Gary's verdict is that it handles better (not that handling has been an issue at all) and my verdict is that it's a rougher ride but not terrible.

The tire guy also commented that running tires at lower air pressures contribute to rivering. He said we could probably lower the pressure to 115 and be okay. I don't know if that 5 lb would make that much difference in the ride. He also said that RV tires are softer tires and are prone to rivering more than truck tires. Our new tires are truck tires so if it's true about soft vs. hard, then that may explain some of the rougher ride. Again, it's not horrible but things seemed to have moved around more than usual.
Did you post your actual individual tire loading? I may have missed it.

Sounds like your "tire guy" is just guessing when it comes to what your CIP should be.
If you post your weights i will be happy to provide my engineering analysis and make a recommendation for your CIP.
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Old 10-18-2015, 08:30 AM   #24
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Did you post your actual individual tire loading? I may have missed it.

Sounds like your "tire guy" is just guessing when it comes to what your CIP should be.
If you post your weights i will be happy to provide my engineering analysis and make a recommendation for your CIP.
No, I don't think I posted the weights. We were weighed last fall at Hoots II when we first got there. We had food & drink enough for the week and were waiting to get there to dump and had grey & black tanks at about 2/3 full. Fresh was about a 1/3. Fuel tank was almost full as well.

Here are the weights:



We were told the front tires should have 105 psi and the back should have 95. Does the recommended pressure vary according from brand to brand?

Thanks so much for your help, Tireman!
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Old 10-18-2015, 02:57 PM   #25
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Thanks for the load info.

First off you get a gold star for making the effort to learn the real "corner" loads and not just the axle loads. In your case your real loads on the front are un-balanced to be not 50/50 side to side as many people seem to believe but you are close to my current suggestion of assuming a 47/53% split when one doesn't know the real loads.

So using your loads I went to my Load Table link page to check on what Yokohama says for a 275/70R22.5
Well I don't find that size in their drop down list (will try and contact them to see when they plan on updating their web page.

Since most, but not all tire companies have almost identical inflation numbers in their tables I just selected Bridgestone to get the numbers for your size. NOTE Michelin is the one company that seems to have the most tires with a slight difference in their tables so I generally do not use their numbers except for Michelin brand tires.

In the Bridgestone tables we find that for 5,600# (heavier side of your front you need a minimum of 95 psi to support the load. The rears with 4,575 on the heavier side need a minimum of 85 psi.

BUT I also recommend adding 10% to the table minimum to learn your morning CIP so you are not chasing your tail when it gets cold and tire pressure drops 1 or 2 psi. Adding 10% or in your case a nice round 10 psi means you can drop a few psi before you need to start looking for a source of high pressure air.

Bottom Line I suggest your CIP be 105 on the fronts and 95 on the rears.

I also suggest that you can do a quick check once a season on a standard truck axle scale to be sure nothing has changed in your loading. That way you can simply look at the new axle load vs your detailed axle load and know if there has been a change large enough to necessitate a return to get new individual corner loading.

Hope this answers your questions.
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Old 10-18-2015, 07:32 PM   #26
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Thank you, Tireman!

We aren't sure why the load on the right side is so much higher. The residential fridge & kitchen including 2 pantries are on that side but the other side has the 8 batteries & the couch & dinette. The people that weighed it made a comment about the difference too. The genny is in the front center.

The ride is definitely rougher with the tires at 120 psi but we don't want to risk rivering or damaging the sidewall by lowering the pressure too much. Maybe we'll split the difference and drop it to 112 or so.

Thanks again for taking the time to look at the numbers and your recommendation. You're another reason why iRV2 is such a great place!
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