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Old 07-13-2014, 11:23 AM   #15
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I wouldn't consider it a particularly high risk, simply because what you are describing is a 1:1 data breach -- that is, spending time and effort to compromise a single account at a time. Nefarious groups are far more interested in 1:N data breaches, where the time and effort they put into compromising something yields them access to a vast number of accounts.

Especially when the account in question has a very limited application -- and more importantly, tends to be under video survelliance (as compared, say, to compromising a conventional credit card, ordering a TV and having it delivered to a location where you can simply grab it once it is delivered).

So no, as a security professional, I don't consider the card to be a significant liability compared to the use of credit cards in major stores (see: Target), using public hotspots with computers that have any personal information on them, or filling out credit applications.

Steve
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveLevin View Post
I wouldn't consider it a particularly high risk, simply because what you are describing is a 1:1 data breach -- that is, spending time and effort to compromise a single account at a time. Nefarious groups are far more interested in 1:N data breaches, where the time and effort they put into compromising something yields them access to a vast number of accounts.

Especially when the account in question has a very limited application -- and more importantly, tends to be under video survelliance (as compared, say, to compromising a conventional credit card, ordering a TV and having it delivered to a location where you can simply grab it once it is delivered).

So no, as a security professional, I don't consider the card to be a significant liability compared to the use of credit cards in major stores (see: Target), using public hotspots with computers that have any personal information on them, or filling out credit applications.

Steve
Thank you sir. That was very helpful and makes sense.
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:58 AM   #17
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I cannot control the how and when that payment is made. If I were running with an account that required a transfer in for example to pay the bill, this could present a problem
Not really an issue. My FJ account has a defined date when the debit will be done - it's shown right on the statement - "Your account will be automatically drafted on xx/yy/zzzz". It's also shown as the "Due Date" in the statement and it's 14 days after the statement was issued. The statement comes the same day each month too (but maybe some variance for weekends?).
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Old 07-13-2014, 12:14 PM   #18
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Hooky, I apologize for my snarky comments. I read your first post and reacted to it as paranoid fears of modern technology. I recognized your points about, "all numeric user ID." and, "Second, they only allow a six character password that isn't even case sensitive." but ignored them and focused on the general tone of the posting.

I use Flying J while traveling and if the diesel discount makes it cheaper than neighboring truck stops, I use the card. I also have used it to get discount on LP and dump station.

My neighbor is super paranoid, using aluminum wallet and refuses to get upgraded electric meter because of fears. I changed my Wifi name to "FBI van parked on Street" just to mess with him.
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Old 07-13-2014, 01:00 PM   #19
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Are Pilot/Flying J cards a risk?

Hooky,

You are correct to be concerned about security on using any credit card. Even though my comments were meant to be taken in just, they are accurate in more ways than we would like. Frankly, in today's electronic society, it is not a matter of if you will experience a security breach, but when it will happen. It would not be unlikely that our accounts and personal information is already being made available for sale to the next theif.

Our main defense is a good offense and to be diligent in reviewing our accounts often and report any discrepancy quickly.
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Old 07-13-2014, 03:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveLevin View Post
I wouldn't consider it a particularly high risk, simply because what you are describing is a 1:1 data breach -- that is, spending time and effort to compromise a single account at a time. Nefarious groups are far more interested in 1:N data breaches, where the time and effort they put into compromising something yields them access to a vast number of accounts.

Especially when the account in question has a very limited application -- and more importantly, tends to be under video survelliance (as compared, say, to compromising a conventional credit card, ordering a TV and having it delivered to a location where you can simply grab it once it is delivered).

So no, as a security professional, I don't consider the card to be a significant liability compared to the use of credit cards in major stores (see: Target), using public hotspots with computers that have any personal information on them, or filling out credit applications.

Steve
I thank you sir. Making sense is a gift.

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Old 07-13-2014, 03:12 PM   #21
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The question remains, what is your liability if the Flying J card is compromised? Does anyone know for sure?
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:32 PM   #22
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The question remains, what is your liability if the Flying J card is compromised? Does anyone know for sure?
It seems to my that Flying J thinks you're on the hook for all charges:
"YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT PFJ, ITS SUBSIDIARIES AND AFFILIATES, SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU UNDER ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, PUNITIVE, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES THAT MAY BE INCURRED BY YOU, INCLUDING ANY IDENTITY THEFT, WHETHER OR NOT PFJ OR ITS REPRESENTATIVES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF OR SHOULD HAVE BEEN AWARE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF ANY SUCH LOSSES ARISING."
http://www.rvpluscard.com/resources/...Conditions.pdf

And please read this interesting thread:
Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Flying J / Pilot RV Plus Card / Charge Card

And I found these interesting:
Topic Tags pilot raid | Overdrive - Owner Operators Trucking Magazine
And let me be clear that I'm not linking the OP's topic with these stories. I was researching the OP's issue and came across people saying Pilot/Flying J charges too much compared to the competition, and that their discount card was difficult to use correctly to get the discount, and others said they thought they did everything correctly and still didn't get the discount when they checked their receipt. They all may be wrong and Pilot/Flying J may be the cheapest and the posters just did things incorrectly, were wrong, or lied on the internet. I then came across the federal investigation related to the links in the link above and I thought it was interesting. I'm not suggesting Pilot/Flying J does, or has done, anything wrong. I just found it interesting. Readers may draw their own conclusions.

And this regarding new card skimmers hitting the streets:
Is your ATM safe? 'Invisible' ultra-thin skimmers that can steal your bank card details uncovered | Mail Online

Personally, I would be very nervous using a card that doesn't have something like a Visa/MC logo on it which, IIRC, limits your liability to $50 if you report it stolen within 2 days, or $500 within two months of the statement that showed the improper use (verify in case my memory is failing).

At first I maybe the Flying J card could still come under the credit card liability limits, but it seems some folks in that 2012 thread called the company directly. Maybe that would be a good idea. And I suggest if they tell you you won't be liable that you ask to be referred to an official term and condition -- in writing -- that confirms as much. Moreover, it seems to me if your liability were limited they would put that front and center in your terms and conditions document (which I linked above) as a selling point of their program.

However, my perception and understanding may be incorrect and Pilot/Flying J is free to clear things up. If someone calls them for clarification, please let us know what they say.

I like credit cards and cash. But everyone's risk tolerance is different.

Finally, one can google for limitless stories of clerks stealing your info when you hand over your card to a person -- especially when you can't watch them the whole time (not necessarily at Flying J, however, just a general caution). Beware.

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:20 PM   #23
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Great research Southpark. I may give them a call. I realize the odds are slim to none for getting ripped off but I'm a curious guy. If I do call them I'll post back here.
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:45 PM   #24
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Are Pilot/Flying J cards a risk?

I also have a Pilot/FJ Card and do not use it for fear of being ripped off !
I did go to use it once because of all the discounts offered. When I saw the price on the pump and figured all of my discounts, I was shocked !
It was Pilot/FJ that was ripping me off !!!!
I now use Gas Buddy and save Way more than if I purchased at Pilot/FJ.
Too bad !!
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:17 PM   #25
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The way I read the agreement when I signed up for the card was I was responsible for all charges on the card.

I opened a separate free checking account at my bank that I keep about $50 in. When I receive the invoice notification from PFJ, I then transfer that amount into that checking account.

I have found the card very easy to use, and always get the discount off of the cash price. I realize there are probably cheaper places to fuel, but when I'm in an unfamiliar area, I don't want to go hunting for them and possibly find out I can't get in or easily turn around with my towed.
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Old 07-13-2014, 08:01 PM   #26
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I did get the charge card, but a year later hadn't used it once.....there didn't seem to be any stations where we were stopping overnight.....So we cancelled....one less card. There were a lot of loves stations on our routes though.
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Old 07-13-2014, 08:10 PM   #27
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I should point out that one argument I came across that made sense regarding paying a little more for diesel from them is that they move so much of it you're less likely to get water, fungus, or dirty diesel from a smaller place that may have it sitting for a while.

And Bob, I too have set up separate accounts for places that demand access for payment. For example, my health insurance...oh good Lord, I nearly had a stroke right there just thinking about how much I pay for insurance post ACA (hint: if you don't qualify for subsidies you get hammered).
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Old 07-13-2014, 08:16 PM   #28
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I did get the charge card, but a year later hadn't used it once.....there didn't seem to be any stations where we were stopping overnight.....So we cancelled....one less card. There were a lot of loves stations on our routes though.
Rumor control: I have heard that Loves and Pilot/FJ are looking to merge....
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