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Old 07-13-2014, 09:15 AM   #1
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Are Pilot/Flying J cards a risk?

I applied for and just received my Pilot/Flying J RVPlus cards so we can save some money and pay for my diesel at the pumps. All that is appealing. However when I activated the card I found their security to be woefully inadequate.

First, they assign an all numeric user ID. Second, they only allow a six character password that isn't even case sensitive. The user pin to use the cards at the pump is set after you log in.

Given how easy that would be to crack that combination, it will only be a matter of time before someone does it. So, my question relates to my liability if my account is breached and the card is used to rack up unauthorized charges. Is this like a traditional credit card where your risk is limited to $50? Should I cut it up? Any lawyers or others with experience out there?

Thanks,

Chuck
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:21 AM   #2
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Are Pilot/Flying J cards a risk?

You can change the 4 digit pin (they call it a Control Number) any time on the web site. We've been using the card since it first came out and I don't believe it is any less secure than using a credit card at the pump.
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:57 AM   #3
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Are Pilot/Flying J cards a risk?

If you are scared, cut it up, cancel your credit. Don't buy anything at any store either, all systems are vulnerable to cyber attach. Don't buy anything online either, you are exposed to many viruses and hackers. Only use cash and buy things in person..... Take my advice, don't do anything that I do. I do almost everything online or use a card for the rest. In fact, I use my FJ card all the time with automatic draft for the best savings on fuel. Even worse, I support iRV2 and let them automatically draft my account, oh what a scary thought that is..... I carry $20 cash, and replace it one a year or so.
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:33 AM   #4
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tedgard,
you are way out of line on this. The OP had a question they thought was important. Your sarcastic answer has no place here. If you have something to add, please do. If you don't have something to add, DON'T !
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:38 AM   #5
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While I agree with the point of your post, I carry a good deal more cash. Why? For when the network or satellite is down. Yes, it does happen. Over some 10 years ago now, pulled into the Chevron station I always used. No one was able to get gas or buy anything because the satellite circuit was down. Well no one but me. Filled my tank got a diet Pepsi paid in cash and was on my way.
Now returning from a trip to Chanute, KS just the night before last stopped at a small truck stop in a town. Their debit/credit card equipment was not working. Once again I was able to get fuel and continue on my way by paying cash.
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:44 AM   #6
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To Hooky,
While your points about security are valid I use my RV Plus card all the time. Though other cards may have potentially better user security criteria the vast bulk of users do not use them. They will still use the shortest and most simple password they can enter. And then use that same password everywhere. Keep in mind that the hacks you hear about are into the bank and credit card companies database, not into an individual user's account. Yes, it can happen, but seldom does. Don't have any idea as to liability.
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:46 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Pa Uon View Post
tedgard,
you are way out of line on this. The OP had a question they thought was important. Your sarcastic answer has no place here. If you have something to add, please do. If you don't have something to add, DON'T !
I appreciate your response. I also didn't think my question was naive or foolish. Part of my job is ensuring the security of a large group of computers subject to hacking. In this case their security is lacking. Thank you for helping to keep things civil and productive on this forum.
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedgard01 View Post
If you are scared, cut it up, cancel your credit. Don't buy anything at any store either, all systems are vulnerable to cyber attach. Don't buy anything online either, you are exposed to many viruses and hackers. Only use cash and buy things in person..... Take my advice, don't do anything that I do. I do almost everything online or use a card for the rest. In fact, I use my FJ card all the time with automatic draft for the best savings on fuel. Even worse, I support iRV2 and let them automatically draft my account, oh what a scary thought that is..... I carry $20 cash, and replace it one a year or so.
If the OP does use the card, I hope he keeps it in an aluminum wallet so no one scans it. In addition, be sure to carry a towel to drape over the pump keyboard so no one reads the code with binoculars from a distance.

I've got a Flying J card, but often save more money by going to an alternate truck stop where price is cheaper than Flying J with the 'discount.'
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:50 AM   #9
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15 U.S. Code 1643 - Liability of holder of credit card | LII / Legal Information Institute

I believe this will answer your questions. It is a credit card. I have one but only use it on long trips I get a better discount with a Walmart credit card.
To me it appears the discount Flying J gives you only brings the price down to the same as cash. I have noticed in some occasions where other truck stops are much cheaper than flying J if you pay cash. One of the advantages of using the flying J card is the ability to put the entire purchase on one swipe and not have to reswipe every 75.00 like you do with a visa or mastercard. When I use my Walmart card I just go to the window prepay 500.00 and then whatever I actually pump is all that is charged to the card.
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:00 AM   #10
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I have been using my RV Plus card for over a year and a half with no problems at all. Initially some Pilots were not administering the program properly, but over the last year there have been no problems. In most cases you can pay at the pump. The discount comes off of the CASH PRICE, not the credit price. This will save an additional 4 or 5 cents. I do not always use P/FJ but do whenever one is close enough to my travel route. I also believe you will always be getting fresh fuel. I have heard of some traveling a few miles to save 10 cents only to get water in their fuel or dirt, or some other contamination. Most P/FJ are busy enough that the fuel is turned over about every day.

Although I do tend to agree with the philosophy of doing everything online or with cards, I also disagree with the sarcastic comments that were uncalled for. I also have several hundred dollars in my safe at any given time so when I am in a location that does not have a P/FJ, I can get the cash price.
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:00 AM   #11
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I'm not sure that card is a considered a "credit card" in the context of the law cited above. It's a revolving charge account and you get no "credit" - it is essentially a monthly charge account with a direct debit to your bank account. I suspect you are liable, at least legally, for any and all charges.
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:09 AM   #12
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Wow. I think it is funny how some people think I'm paranoid. I shop and spend thousands online with my credit card. I am also aware that if my card was used by someone else the total liability I'd have is $50. I am also smart enough not to use a debit card because I know that my entire bank account could be drained without recourse on my part.

I also carry "just in case" cash and use it when I need it on the road. I don't carry too much because I know there are ATMs around nearly every corner if I need to top off what I spend.

If I were a bad guy I would write a program to run random combinations of numeric UIDs against random combinations of six character passwords. I would have access fairly quickly if they don't automatically lock out after "n" failed attempts. Once in, I'd change the PIN and email address and then request a replacement card to a new address. After I (the theoretical bad guy) received the replacement card, I'd spend until I hit the credit limit and move on.

I'm not scared of credit cards or the world we live in. I do have respect for smart security measures. Think about it, there is a reason banks don't have security this lax - they foot the bill and see the millions of dollars of credit card fraud.

In this case I wanted to know if normal credit card liability limits apply or if anyone had ever been ripped off. I appreciate the constructive comments that addressed this point.
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:14 AM   #13
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I honestly do not know what the liability limits are on this card for as others have said, it's not a true credit card. I have a $1000 limit as I have chosen not to use the auto debit from my account. In my mind this is more dangerous because I cannot control the how and when that payment is made. If I were running with an account that required a transfer in for example to pay the bill, this could present a problem, hence the $1000 limit. When I near $1000 I make a payment at a time of my choosing and continue using the card.
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:19 AM   #14
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Considering almost all ATM and Credit card PIN's are only 4 numbers, I have no issue with using my card. If I thought the 4 digit PIN is not good enough, I need to cancel all my cards. Almost every card out there has a 4 digit PIN. If you are worried about your PIN Number, you can always login and change it daily.
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