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Old 05-31-2014, 09:21 AM   #15
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Very easy to see how much of Intended Bio blend each Flying J stations use.
At far right on Their fuel prices for the day. Gives that info for each station.
Thanks, that's useful, didn't know they had added that column.
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Old 05-31-2014, 10:22 AM   #16
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Today virtually all diesel fuel contains B2 percentage because that is the most economical and most effective lubricating substitute for sulfur removed during refining. I have yet to read about anyone personally experiencing engine damage from burning biodiesel. West of St. Louis on I 70 (N side of interstate) is the only station I personally know of that sells B100. My 1999 Cummins ISC 350 seemed to run smoother and quieter on it, and I haven't had any filter problems since then, as I said previously.
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Old 05-31-2014, 01:16 PM   #17
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"Don't run scared, it is the future nothing we can do will change the fuel we burn unless we stop burning fuel completely."

Maybe that is a part of the problem, we all just sit back and let them do it to us without much effort to remove these folks from political office. To me that is very sad.

Nick
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Old 05-31-2014, 03:02 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Ray,IN
Today virtually all diesel fuel contains B2 percentage because that is the most economical and most effective lubricating substitute for sulfur removed during refining. I have yet to read about anyone personally experiencing engine damage from burning biodiesel. West of St. Louis on I 70 (N side of interstate) is the only station I personally know of that sells B100. My 1999 Cummins ISC 350 seemed to run smoother and quieter on it, and I haven't had any filter problems since then, as I said previously.
Seems to me the problem is not with older diesels that are much more tolerant of bio-blends.....but the new high-tech diesels like the Mercedes which is used their blue-tech technology for cars and the Sprinter based MHs. Their tolerance would appear to be a 5% limit. What will happen to these units as the blends increase?
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Old 05-31-2014, 03:39 PM   #19
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Seems to me the problem is not with older diesels that are much more tolerant of bio-blends.....but the new high-tech diesels like the Mercedes which is used their blue-tech technology for cars and the Sprinter based MHs. Their tolerance would appear to be a 5% limit. What will happen to these units as the blends increase?
Mercedes says no more than 5% in all of their diesel engines (from at least 2008 on) and from the research I've done the primary reason seems to be due to DPF issues (both clogging and potential problems during regeneration.) I don't know if they are being over-cautious or whether it's a widespead issue but bottom line a new DPF is $2500 and I don't feel like being a test subject.
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Old 05-31-2014, 11:40 PM   #20
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"Don't run scared, it is the future nothing we can do will change the fuel we burn unless we stop burning fuel completely."

Maybe that is a part of the problem, we all just sit back and let them do it to us without much effort to remove these folks from political office. To me that is very sad.

Nick
Politics are not permitted here at irv2.com. Please refrain from attempting to introduce it into this or any thread.
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:05 AM   #21
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So, we are to just ignore the reason for the problem, doesn't make any sense to me.

I just noticed your tag line and the quote from Douglas and that is all I am advocating as I did not push for any party.

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Old 06-01-2014, 01:27 PM   #22
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It doesn't matter what the reason is. Energy should be spent on seeing what the manufacturer of your engine tells you. Caterpillar has a PDF to download and Cummins has a site also that is dedicated to this question. It looks like regardless of age, Cat says up to 20% is OK. Cummins only gives their blessing on 2002 or newer. They also say to contact your OEM.
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Old 06-01-2014, 01:39 PM   #23
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Of course it matters. If we ignore the reasons for our condition then we will simply get more of this same garbage. We shouldn't surrender so quickly. The problem is not the manufacturer, but the agencies/govts that cause the problem.

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Old 06-01-2014, 02:07 PM   #24
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I'm going to be carrying four extra fuel filters from now on. After reading about the "cleaning effect" of bio-diesel, I have a gut feeling that the cleaning will be done on the storage tanks first, then on my tank and lines next. Result will be crud in the filters.

The gelling at 14F for mild blends and 61F for the heavier blends DOES concern me. Yep, I have a block heater but that won't do squat for the fuel in the tank.

Next concern is for the Kubota 4cyl diesel generator. I will do some research as to what Kubota has to say about the "acceptable" blends of bio-diesel.
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:45 PM   #25
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Nick, biodiesel has been in regular use since 2000. If the pipelines, fuel tankers, onsite storage tanks are not cleaned from biodiesel flow by now, what remains will be there until the tank is removed from service. That should not be a concern. At this point your only concern should be what the engine manufactuer says is the top limit for their engine and accessories, and why.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:30 PM   #26
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I have been on the road for years and have driven in many parts of the country and I have not seen signs for biodiesel until my recent drive from Nor Cal to Las Vegas. I didn't give it another thought until my only choice for fuel at the Barstow Flying J was B20. Having never seen if before, and after a call to Cummins it is recommended that I not use the fuel.

Ignoring the matter will do me no good nor will ignoring the idiotic thinking that has put me and thousand of others in this awful postion. I think too many of us are far too willing to just accept the regulations tossed our way, even when they are based upon phony assumptions.

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Old 06-01-2014, 05:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Of course it matters. If we ignore the reasons for our condition then we will simply get more of this same garbage. We shouldn't surrender so quickly. The problem is not the manufacturer, but the agencies/govts that cause the problem.

Nick
The manufacturers have lobbied for it, they started it. If they start trying to push higher blends I will boycott the fueling stations selling it. I will even go a step further to let Flying J or whomever sells it know I will not be spending my money there.
If fact, instead of blaming someone we should be lobbying IRV2.com to contact the vendors that sell it. I know that in the past certain Vendors have taken a special interest and even started threads on this site to promote goodwill.
As for now, the 20% mix is acceptable, but higher concentrations might not be.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:20 PM   #28
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At this point your only concern should be what the engine manufactuer says is the top limit for their engine and accessories, and why.
Here is what Mercedes thinks and it's not pretty. Apparently they've even stopped selling diesel vehicles in Illinois due to the biodiesel issue.

The two things they seem most concerned about is biodiesel's lower tendency to vaporize which can cause oil contamination/dilution (especially in DPF-equipped vehicles due to the regeneration cycle), and also sludge formation in engines that sit for extended periods. They make it abundantly clear that blends over 5% may cause damage and such damage may not be covered under warranty. They do say that blends up to 20% can be used in an emergency.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...y-goopy-sludge

http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA..._Brochure5.pdf


In fact Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, and Volkswagen are all unanimous in their maximum standard of 5%. Is B20 magically OK in other engines? Either the engineers for all these companies are just being over-the-top in their concerns, or...
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