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Old 11-13-2010, 07:01 AM   #1
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BBB/RVIA any difference?

Not in my opinion.

Finally someone has the backbone to bring this to the public, the Ct AG has raised the -obivous- as an issue: that the Better Business Bureau SELLS the A/A+ ratings , who knew???

All that is left is for another genius to take on the RVIA for doing EXACTLY the same thing.........

Well there may be a slight difference between the two organizations, what the RVIA does puts lives in danger.....................
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:38 AM   #2
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The RVIA is a manufacturer's association, owned an operated by them, so no question there. But they aren't claiming to be a consumer advocate or watchdog like the BBB is. Their avowed purpose is to promote the RV industry, for the benefit of the manufacturers in that industry. Need we say more?

A BBB is a strange animal - really a business in its own right who "business' is ratings of other businesses (and charities too). And they seem to be locally owned and operated, using a trademark from a national council.

Caveat Emptor.
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Old 11-14-2010, 04:03 AM   #3
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:11 AM   #4
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Gary, the RVIA promotes themselves as an entity that ensures the buying public that a coach with the RVIA sticker has met certain build standards-the reality is that, like the BBB you only have to pay to play.

When I first saw the website that I have referenced a few times here I called the RVIA and asked how such a poorly/illegally made coach could have their sticker attached, I was told that the organization does not have the ability to perform running audits nor do they have any enforcement or sanctioning powers.

It is much like the ISO standards, its basically the honor system and as so frequently documented with regard to rv build quality, material and guarantee fullfillment there is NO honor.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:45 PM   #5
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You are expecting too much of an ANSI or ISO standard. No standards body, ANSI or ISO, tests all products that claim compliance with the standards they publish. They don't even spot test them. Not even the federal DOT safety standards, e.g. for tires or portable LP bottles, are tested. The manufacturer asserts compliance by afixing the official label.

RVIA members buy RVIA stickers as a means of funding the organization. The manufacturers asserts the RV complies with the RV standards adopted by the RVIA (e.g. NFPA 1192).

None of the standards mean the RV is well built or well designed - just that it has the items and meets the requirements called for in the standards that apply.

I'm not saying the RVIA is out to help you & me - anything but. They are all about the manufactures and are interested in us only to the extent that we can be induced to keep buying RVs.
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Old 11-18-2010, 06:17 AM   #6
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Gary, I only know what I was told by the organization itself-or rather what I was told by someone who answered the phone when I called the listed number for the RVIA.

The information was clear and without any language that could be open to interpretation: an RV which bears the RVIA sticker is certified to have met certain minimum build standards for quality and SAFETY. The representative stated that when a manufacturer applies for membership into the club a 'team' is sent to the company and the build procedure is monitored, and if the practices meet -standards- the firm is allowed to pay the union dues and slap stickers on the coaches they make.

The web site I cited photo documents shocking shortcomings in workmanship and materials with regard to the construction of Phoenix Cruiser products, electrical practices are in every sense of the word-criminal and yet the owner of the site makes the claim that the coach has an RVIA sticker attached.

How can any company have so little regard for safety, how can an rv with so many violations of the national electrical code be eligible to bear the RVIA sticker, but most importantly-why doesn't the RVIA care ??
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:03 PM   #7
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I can't answer that, especially since I don't have any direct knowledge of the RV itself or your exact complaint to the RVIA. Seems hard to believe they would not do something in response a complaint that the RV did not adhere to the standard the seal represents, but I doubt of they would tell you what they planned to do other than maybe "investigate".

Did you send them a formal letter alleging that the RVIA standards are not being adhered to by that manufacturer and cite specific violations of the codes?
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:19 PM   #8
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Gary, the lady didn't make the suggestion to write a letter and I didn't think of it, the position of the RVIA was made pretty clear though.
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:50 PM   #9
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Anybody know what the registration number on the RVIA sticker is supposed to mean? I looked on their website when we bought our coach, thinking we could access a database to look up the number but I couldn't find anything.
Is this just window dressing to look "official" or does it actually mean something?
-Burns
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Old 11-25-2010, 09:19 AM   #10
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The number is simply a means of keeping track of the certificates - the RV manufacturer pays for each one he uses. It has no significance to the owner, except to show that the rig is RVIA-compliant.

There are RV manufacturers who do not belong to the RVIA and their RVs won't have the seal. Born Free is an example.
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Old 11-26-2010, 06:40 AM   #11
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It is more accurate to state that the sticker is alledged to indicate that the RVIA has certified that the vehicle to which the sticker is attached is compliant to NFPA 1192 which is a broad set of safety regulations which encompass most safety related systems on a recreational vehicle, including but not limited to plumbing/all fuel systems/electrical and other devices, ie: smoke/lp/co detectors.

Examine the pictures at the web site mentioned and it is clear that there exists multiple, serious violations with regard to at least two major areas: electrical and fuel systems.

The manufacturer which is central to this discussion states -during the virtual tour of its facility- that they have no employee turnover, or have had no employee turnover for at least 13 years.

It follows: since multiple systems in the coach made by this manufacturer suffered mulitple catestrophic failures more than one discipline/trade (read person) was involved.

Just how can a coach be deficient in multiple areas involving personal safety, ie NFPA 1192 be allowed to display the RVIA sticker, when the RVIA itself states that the decal assures the buying public that the coach bearing the sticker is in compliance with certain safety standards?

There can be only one answer: you see just as the BBB has been selling its highest ratings so does the RVIA sell its stamp of build compliance-no other conclusion can be properly reached.
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Old 11-26-2010, 11:01 AM   #12
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The RVIA seal started in the late 60's I beleive. It was to be put by the entrance door and the vehicle was promoted to have approved Electrical, Plumbing (Gas & Water) systems. I put an extimated 30,000 seals on vehicles before being delivered to dealers. After many states became aware of the money RVIA was making from the seals, some states desided to make it manditory for their seal to be put on coaches before bringing them into their state. Most manufacturers have good quality control systems in place for their products. The RVIA seals started out at $1.25 but are around $25-$50 today. In past years RVIA would call the manufacturer before sending in their inspectors. Hopefully that has changed? I Believe RVIA is the marketing arm of the RV industry and should let the manufacturers be liable for how their units are built and quality comtroled.

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Old 11-26-2010, 02:53 PM   #13
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The RVIA is only their (RVIA) standards. If the manufacture had to follow NFPA or any other building/trades code very few of us could afford a motor home.

"Approved" is what RVIA says is approved. Get over it. It took me (retired building inspector/all trades) years to stop gritting my teeth at motor home construction.
Now I just enjoy the ride.

Kerry
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Old 11-26-2010, 06:55 PM   #14
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The RVIA standards include parts of NFPA, most importantly NFPA 1192.
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