Buying a House and Leaving the Road

[BTFT]

I always resist engaging with and answering posts like the one below that simply take a statement of fact and then cast it in a completely different light and imbue it with a meaning the original statement never had. That is often done, as in this case, by ascribing all kinds of ridiculous assertions about the OP's (mine in this case) character, motivations and behaviour. This, even though, the writer has no personal knowledge of me, never met me and knows nothing of me.


I choose to answer here because the author of the quote below continues to take one line out of my long post and ascribe a completely false meaning and a set of negative character traits to it and posting it several times here.

Originally Posted by Itchytoe

We are giving him the same benefit of the doubt that we give people in general. We simply see things in the OP that others don't. There's a difference between giving someone the benefit of the doubt, and refusing to call a spade, a spade. The following quote, "so many, way too many are angry, intolerant, racist, stuck in the past and seemingly fundamentally unhappy. This is sad." is a prime example of something negative in the OP that isn't about the state of RV parks, but is about the people in RV parks. People like you and me. Need I continue about how the OP talks about "RV parks all over the country are filling with economically disenfranchised folks who are just getting by. Barely making it."? That's another jab at the people in RV parks, not the parks themselves.

Here is my original quote:


"While we have met some very special people on our journeys, friendly, happy and tolerant, so many, way too many are angry, intolerant, racist, stuck in the past and seemingly fundamentally unhappy. This is sad. It makes one wonder why they are out here at all."



The first sentence is a statement of fact. I know angry, racist and unhappy when I see and hear it as I suspect everyone does when it becomes apparent.


The author of the post above has continually focused on my use of the words "Some", "Many" and "So Many"


Those words are of course subjective. But since I am relating MY experiences and what I have Seen and Heard It is mine and mine alone to choose my words to best describe what I heard and saw.


And I chose those words carefully. Over the past five years my Friend Mary and I have come across the types of people I describe above on a depressingly regular basis.


The mistake the author quoted above has made and continues to make is that he assumes that this statement is based upon my personal interactions. In many cases I was simply a bystander, in hearing range of a racist or hateful rant by a fellow RV'r.



In some cases my observations are based on a personal interaction. But I have to tell you that when people start that kind of talk with me I tend to disengage as quickly as possible.


Bringing to light my experience over 5 years of full-timing in my OP has been portrayed by a few as some sort af attack on the RV community at large. Nothing could be further from the truth or more ridiculous if one reads the entirety of my OP.


Finally one has to acknowledge that there are many problems in the RV'ing world. Just as there are in any other large commercial segment of the US economy.


Some may not agree with my ASSESSMENT of those problems but those problems exist and are fact. Simply ignoring them serves no one.



Finally, at it's base the objections and criticisms by some and in the quoted text above, revolve around the meaning and the numbers of folks represented by the terms "Some", "Many" and "So Many". This is frankly head scratching as it was I who experienced this not them. Therefore it is I who is the only one that can accurately depict what I see.


You may take issue with and not like my choice of "Many", "Some" etc. but you have no basis on which to challenge my choice of them or to use them to try to lead others to believe that i am somehow a terrible guy, an old angry codger etc etc ad nauseum.



Others experiences may differ. And that is understandable as they were not in the same places, with the same people at the same time as I was over the last 5 years spanning a geographical area that extends from Alaska to Cabo San Lucas Baja to Maryland.


How many of those who have spent so much bandwidth and space here criticizing my OP and questioning my character can truthfully say they have covered so much ground and met so many hundreds of people in the same time span?


Finallly; below is my quote from my op about the people in RV parks I see and the changing demographics that are apparent to anyone. This is also an often quoted part of my OP to which some have taken great umbrage and have ascribed to me and the quote a completely negative perspective on my part.


I DEFY anyone to find one word of the following that is judgemental in any way. It is simply not there. This was simply an expression of fact. And in actuality the terms I use such as "disenfranchised" "Barely Making it" and "Just Getting By" are all sympathetic terms or at least neutral terms.


"RV’ers are changing, and rapidly. More and more are younger, working via computer or working in contract jobs such as Visiting Nurses. There is a whole cohort of people who due to financial or other life circumstances are permanently living in RV Parks. We have watched the number of these people rise dramatically in the last 5 years. We have met entire families living in RV’s with three kids and two dogs and two parents who work via computer or by contract and live in RV parks. RV parks all over the country are filling with economically disenfranchised folks who are just getting by. Barely making it."


So tell me again just what is the problem here? Most of the respondents to this thread seem to read it the way it was written.

[Old-Biscuit]

Still 'justifiying' your negative post.........


You FTd, didn't really like it, came off the road, got a S&B.
Woo-Hoo!


Move on .

[BTFT]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

Still 'justifiying' your negative post.........


You FTd, didn't really like it, came off the road, got a S&B.
Woo-Hoo!


Move on .

Please tell my how you judge I didn't like it?


If I didn't like it I wouldn't have done it for 5 years.


Re-read my OP where I say we had a great time (???)

[CampDaven]

BTFT

I appreciate your OP. It gives me pause to rate my 8 years of fulltime.

We’ve done what we wanted, where we wanted to go, and when we chose to. The key was only “good” weather.

We’re happy that it’s been 50K miles with the MH, and 100K more with our Wrangler toad, in places we have never been, and in campgrounds we’ve rarely been to more than once.

The Journey is Our Destination, so planning is rare. But the amazing tools that technology has blessed us with made it all rewarding and seldom disappointing.

Allstays, GasBuddy, Google Earth, Speedco, Blue Beacon, KOA, and many more....made everything easy and rewarding! This ensures we will find good campgrounds, cheaper fuel, and keep our house clean and well-maintained.

People are, overall, amazing and typically kind, giving, and trustworthy. Those that are not are few and easily identified over time by their base attitude.

We have camped forever, and will continue to Glamp until we cannot or change our minds.

For us, this lifestyle has been the greatest freedom and joy.

[RickNC]

BTFT,
For some folks realistic and negative are synonyms, add to that no one likes being told their house is dirty.

I agree with the context and conclusions of your OP, I would also say to someone who was planning to tour the country, that racism, misogyny, ignorance and poverty are part of the landscape of America. Yes it’s damn ugly and makes me angry. On the other hand I have learned and understand more about people that make up this country from those experiences than I ever will from staring at big holes in the ground or renderings of dead politicians on statues and mountain sides.

It appears you saw a lot in 5 years, many travel much longer and see little.

[Itchytoe]

Originally Posted by BTFT

Bringing to light my experience over 5 years of full-timing in my OP has been portrayed by a few as some sort af attack on the RV community at large. Nothing could be further from the truth or more ridiculous if one reads the entirety of my OP.

There's a neat tactic some people like to use. You see, they have this book that's full of hate, violence, bigotry, misogyny, genocide, and so many other evils, but then when people point out those bad things, they say to look at the bigger, overall picture. It's really a book about love and joy. But every time I pick up that book and turn to a random page, I find a story about fear, hate, greed, or some terrible deed that the main character is doing. 100 stories about about fear and hatred don't add up to a book about love no matter how many times they tell me to "read the entirety of the book".

Originally Posted by BTFT

Finally one has to acknowledge that there are many problems in the RV'ing world. Just as there are in any other large commercial segment of the US economy.

Some may not agree with my ASSESSMENT of those problems but those problems exist and are fact. Simply ignoring them serves no one.

Everyone knows the RVing world isn't perfect. Nobody is trying to say that it is.
Also, you don't have an assessment of any problems. You're just saying that there are problems and listing them out. Then people can either agree with you, or disagree and prove your point. Either way, you just have to be right. People aren't disagreeing with your assessment of anything. We are disagreeing that the RVing world is as you claim it to be. It's not full of hate and racism and bigotry, and whatever else you listed. And no, us disagreeing with you doesn't just prove your point.

Originally Posted by BTFT

Finally, at it's base the objections and criticisms by some and in the quoted text above, revolve around the meaning and the numbers of folks represented by the terms "Some", "Many" and "So Many". This is frankly head scratching as it was I who experienced this not them. Therefore it is I who is the only one that can accurately depict what I see.

You may take issue with and not like my choice of "Many", "Some" etc. but you have no basis on which to challenge my choice of them or to use them to try to lead others to believe that i am somehow a terrible guy, an old angry codger etc etc ad nauseum.

I never said you were a terrible guy, an old angry codger or anything of the sort. I said that your post makes it sound like you just got old and are shaking your fist at the kids playing on your lawn. Maybe you actually did turn into an old codger, but I've never met you so I don't know. You post makes it look like that, but I have no way of knowing if your post accurately reflects on you or not. If you'd have said you drowned a litter of puppies in a river, then I might call you a terrible guy, but I'm pretty sure you've never drowned a litter of puppies in a river. There is a huge difference between saying you have turned into an old codger, and saying that your posts makes you look as if you got old. One comment is about you, and the other is about your post. I commented about your post, not about you.

In my first reply to this thread I said that there were key phrases that reveal a lot about you. I stand by that comment even now. You are now using phrases like "the author of the quote below" and "the author of the post above" instead of using my screen name when referring to me. That's a big red flag. So is the avoidance of contractions. They reveal a lot about the person using the tactics and admitting to very carefully choosing his or her words. Note how that sounds very different from, "They reveal a lot about you", but means exactly the same thing.

Remember Bill Clinton? "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." It's a famous line for many reasons. People like me, who have to learn other people very quickly to be able to do their job, pick up on small things like that. They don't seem like much to the vast majority of people, but they are extremely revealing to a person who's job requires figuring out when people are hiding something. A single instance of saying "I am not" instead of "I'm not" doesn't say much if anything, but the repeated avoidance of normal contractions is telling. So is using phrases like "the author of the following quote" instead of their name, or direct references like him, his, you, and your. To those that aren't trained, it seems more objective and detached, but to those that know what to look for, it's a red flag.

If Bill would have just said "I didn't have sex with Monica." everyone would have believed him. What he said revealed more about him than anything else.

Originally Posted by BTFT

How many of those who have spent so much bandwidth and space here criticizing my OP and questioning my character can truthfully say they have covered so much ground and met so many hundreds of people in the same time span?

Me. I can make that same claim. In fact, I'd wager that I've covered more ground and met more people in more places in less time than you have. I've had the oil industry pay me to travel the world. I've been to the Middle East, all over Africa, Europe, Australia, a few select places in Asia, and of course North America. I list them by continent because a list of countries would simply be too long. I've had to communicate with people who don't share a language with me. I've had bullets flying past my head on several occasions and put my life at risk every day I'm on the job just so you can drive around your RV, run your generator, and do the things you take for granted. The miles I've traveled are counted in the tens of millions, not hundreds of thousands. So to answer your question as directly as possible, I can truthfully say that I have covered so much ground and met so many hundreds of people in the same time span as you.

Originally Posted by BTFT

I DEFY anyone to find one word of the following that is judgemental in any way. It is simply not there. This was simply an expression of fact. And in actuality the terms I use such as "disenfranchised" "Barely Making it" and "Just Getting By" are all sympathetic terms or at least neutral terms.

Oh, you DEFY me to find one word of that that is judgemental? Well, I accept your challenge noble knight!

Those terms that you've repeated here are the words that are judgemental. You've judged them, the people in the RV parks not the parks themselves, to be disenfranchised, barely making it, and just getting by. That's your judgement of those people and you absolutely refuse to even consider that such a judgement could possibly be wrong. Just saying that calling someone a broke loser who is barely scraping by a "sympathetic term" doesn't make it so. But even if it is a sympathetic term, it's still judgemental. It is said as to convey your judgement of those people's financial status to anyone who reads the post.

Originally Posted by BTFT

So tell me again just what is the problem here? Most of the respondents to this thread seem to read it the way it was written.

What exactly is the problem? The original post is a very negative post about the people who use RVs on an RVing forum with wording that was very carefully chosen to be exactly as it is, which makes the post reveal way more about the author than was originally thought by said author. Then a challenge was issued for people to comment on and criticize the original post to make mornings and the forum in general more interesting. Then the author of the post resisted engaging with and answering the posts that were critical of the original post while calling out those critical for refusing to talk to him.

In short, wording my friend. That very carefully chosen wording that makes the post so extremely negative is the problem.

[grindstone01]

FT is just a lifestyle that someone chooses, it doesn't change the persons character or personality and probably won't change their outlook on life. We have FT for 7 years now and we are in it to see and experience the whole country. We have seen a lot of good and some bad campgrounds across the country. But this is the reality of what our country is and it's not all rainbows and butterfly's.
The big difference in a S&B house setting, we knew the local people and who to avoid and who to seek out. The same goes with good and bad areas of town to stay away from. In the RV, we usually arrive somewhat ignorant of the area and the people we will soon meet. But that is part of the adventure of the journey. Someday, we will tire of this lifestyle and retreat to the safety of a S&B house with it's familiar surroundings and friends. FT should just be one chapter in one's life, not the life.

[Mudstream]

The idea, the assumption by so many people is that RV’ers, especially full timers, are just one big bunch of like-minded, Happy Campers is just a Myth. While we have met some very special people on our journeys, friendly, happy and tolerant, so many, way too many are angry, intolerant, racist, stuck in the past and seemingly fundamentally unhappy. This is sad. It makes one wonder why they are out here at all.

There are also people who are arrogant, condescending, bigoted (read the definition before you make a snap judgement) and feel entitled (whatever they want is the only thing that matters.)

I make it a point to visit with other RV'ers. The majority are friendly, happy and helpful and are enjoying life, no matter what their economic situation happens to be. If they are rude, angry, vulgar, highly opinionated, inebriated, uppity or just don't want to interact, you can be sure I only talk to them briefly and only once.

I have been RVing for many years and there were always parks that we avoided for one reason or another. That has not changed.

When it's time to stop full-timing I'll just stop and do something else. As someone already suggested, I'll just go in peace. But for now, there are too many adventures waiting!

[WyCamper]

Originally Posted by Itchytoe

What exactly is the problem? The original post is a very negative post about the people who use RVs on an RVing forum with wording that was very carefully chosen to be exactly as it is, which makes the post reveal way more about the author than was originally thought by said author. Then a challenge was issued for people to comment on and criticize the original post to make mornings and the forum in general more interesting. Then the author of the post resisted engaging with and answering the posts that were critical of the original post while calling out those critical for refusing to talk to him.

In short, wording my friend. That very carefully chosen wording that makes the post so extremely negative is the problem.

I didn't read the OP as negative at all. Apparently you and a few other chose to interpret it as a negative post, felt you needed to take it personal, and have chosen to post nothing but negative attacks on the author from the start.

I'm new to the RV world, we've only stayed in three RV parks so far, the rest has been boondocking - in Walmart lots on trips and camping in the mountains. Of those three parks one was awesome, very clean and well maintained. One other was also very clean and well maintained but all of the perimeter shady spots were more or less permanent residents. No big deal, we enjoyed our 3 day stay and the showers were clean. The other one was not all that well maintained at all and was almost completely occupied by permanent residents, some maintained and some not so much. Ok for one night, but barely. When I called the owner to complain about the enormous dog turd right next to the water hook up, that the host refused to do anything about, we ended up having a lengthy conversation and he confided that he owned and rented out several of the permanent RVs. Previous owners had defaulted on rent, moved on and left the RV behind.

One we followed signs off I-84 in Idaho to "RV Park/Campground" only to find that it had gone 100% permanent a couple years ago, the owner just never bothered taking his signs down, and didn't answer his phone either.

We're starting to plan a several thousand mile trip either this coming summer or the next and will be staying in campgrounds along the way, mostly to have electric and not have to run the generator for the A/C. My one big concern is being able to find decent campgrounds. Because so many don't have even minimally adequate web sites you have no way of knowing what it's like until you pull in after a day on the road.

RVParky helps, but many campgrounds I've tried to look at don't have current reviews or websites. Seems pretty pathetic that such a large chunk of the campground industry is so technology backwards.

[CampDaven]

WyCamper,

If you read my post, you may understand things better.
It’s not easy to begin camping and progress while not accepting a few campground foibles.
Allstays.....

[twogypsies]

Originally Posted by WyCamper

. My one big concern is being able to find decent campgrounds. Because so many don't have even minimally adequate web sites you have no way of knowing what it's like until you pull in after a day on the road.

RVParky helps, but many campgrounds I've tried to look at don't have current reviews or websites. Seems pretty pathetic that such a large chunk of the campground industry is so technology backwards.

Try this site: Campground Reviews - Trusted Reviews of Campgrounds & RV Parks

When you use 'review' sites learn to weed out what you're looking for. Some may give it a poor review because of no reliable wifi. You may not care about this and besides, park wifi is noted for not being great. Also, if only stopping for night you may not care about this. Some may give it a poor review because rules not being enforced. This may be important to you. Some may give it an excellent review because the weather was nice or the site was concrete, etc. etc.

Most often, not going with the poorest or best ratings gives you a good site.

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by BTFT

Please tell my how you judge I didn't like it?

If I didn't like it I wouldn't have done it for 5 years.

Re-read my OP where I say we had a great time (???)

I had something similar happen a while back, when someone asked what things are harder when you're fulltiming than living in a sticks and bricks. Usually, I roll my eyes when people ask a bunch of strangers questions like, "Should I start fulltiming?" If you don't know yourself any better than that, then you deserve what you get.

But I jumped into this one, because it seemed more fact-based. I pointed out really obvious differences, like dealing with holding tanks, or constantly navigating unfamiliar grocery stores, or arranging an address where your mail can be sent.

People responded that holding tanks aren't a big hassle, even though I never said they were. I pointed out that it's different to flush a toilet in a house and never have to deal with it again.

I was told navigating unfamiliar grocery stores is an adventure (not everyone wants an adventure when they're in a hurry to pick up a couple of specific items) or to always shop at Walmart because they layout is always the same (which is not true).

But the worst was the mail delivery. People said general delivery was easy breezy, and I cited examples of when it had been difficult for me, and said that in any event, it's always going to be harder to arrange a place to have your mail sent than to open your door and pluck it from your mailbox.

I was told I was obviously miserable and it was clear that I hated fulltming--even though I'd been at it at that point for well over 10 years, and was still doing it. All because I pointed out that fulltiming presents issues that aren't present when living in a fixed location--which was what the OP asked about.

What I learned from that experience was to back off, and while I probably have a lot of wisdom to share from my 16 years (and counting) of fulltiming, it's annoying to not be able to point out facts without being branded not only a hater, but a hater of the lifestyle I choose to live.

But speaking of those 16 years, and changing demographics of fulltiming, when we hit the road, I was 46 and my boyfriend was 36. Back in 2003, that was very young for fulltiming, and we were treated like unicorns.

I think it was primarily because my boyfriend was still working, but not at a job that had extended assignments (like travel nurse); he could be anywhere at any time. Now that is much more common, and an option for many more people (most of whom are young), and I'm seeing that play out in inquiries about fulltiming. So my impression is that the fulltiming population is adding young people to its ranks faster than it ever has before.

[vincee]

Twogypsies hit it out of the park with his explanation of using RV park review websites such as CampGroundReviews.com, formerly RVParkReviews. You can also find out great insights with a little different take on different CG's by using Google reviews, especially out on the road looking for a place for the night, or, TripAdvisor which has a ton of CG reviews with many not by seasoned campers like us on this site, but sort of a fresh perspective without some of the biases we may have developed over years of camping. My DW and I always try to read between the lines, looking for what is important to us. Also, staying one night vs. multiple nights will play into our decision of where to stop while on the road, or book in advance.

Oatmeal's post was excellent regarding some of the trial and tribulations full-timers face that many non-ft'ers wouldn't even think about. I agree the mobile lifestyle can be an attraction to the younger generations whether X'ers, Millennials or younger. We seem to live in a very transient society today, I have read studies that Millennials move every 4 1/2 to 5 years.

[Cocomonaco]

Originally Posted by Bahamaniac

There is another group of us RVers that doesn't get mentioned much. We are those who not only travel to experience this great country and what it has to offer, but are looking for a place to move to. That small town bonded together with a sense of family. Better climate, and a new place to settle down. We love our adventures but in the back of our minds there is always a keen eye out looking for a new place to set up home base. It looks like you found your Shangrila! Best of luck! We're still looking.

This is what my husband and I are doing - fulltiming, while looking for a place to eventually settle down. And we are LOVING it!! We are 4 years in, and we STILL have no idea where that "forever" home will be, but we are in no hurry. Are there people and places that are icky and nasty? Umm, yeah! But that's what having 6 wheels is about - we can leave if we don't like it.... and we do! Life is good.
Congratulations on finding a new home - sounds wonderful!!