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Old 11-21-2014, 06:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieG View Post
If you want my real opinion, if you are a dealership for any major brand, you should be able to handle serviicing what you sell. Boat dealers do it, motorcycle dealers do it, and car dealers do it. No excuses. It's not "over the top" to expect it.
Boat, motorcycle, and car dealers deal with a limited number of brands. An RV dealer might have gas units made by Chevy, Ford or Dodge, diesels by Cummins, Caterpillar, Mercedes Benz, etc. To expect them to have trained mechanics for all those brands, plus the expensive diagnostic equipment to service them certainly seems to me to be, "over the top."
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:15 PM   #16
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Having devoted 35 years of my life teaching Automotive Repair let me give you an idea just how difficult it is all around this great country to teach kids how to repair a car.

First of all let me clue you in on how successful my program was. I took many, many teams of students to State and national competitions for over 20 years. We won countless gold silver and bronze medals I've got dozens of successful students working all over the place in many careers. Almost every week I still run into students who thank me for what I did for them. I'm not bragging just stating some facts.

There is no glamor in being a shop teacher. According to most parents and administrators every and I mean EVERY kid is going to college. They will all graduate and make a ton of $$$$$. We all know that's not true but that's the standard line. When somebody on TV says anything about further education 99 out of 100 time you'll here them says, "You need to save money for your kids College education." They almost never say "Save $$$$ for your Kids Vocational Education." I've actually never heard that said.

Here's the standard line that I and my students heard for 35 years. " Well Billy you're math grades are kind of average and your science grades are about the same. We better get you into a vocational class so you can learn to work with your hands."

Fixing today's computer controlled does not take a brain right????

Without becoming to verbose that just about sums it all up. It's no wonder why you can't find a decent technician. Seldom did I get any kids who were very good students. But they learned because I was good at what I did.

How can anybody expect to train the less bright students to become outstanding troubleshooting technicians when most good students are always counseled away from vocational courses??? America is reaping the results of thinking/believing only success can be achieved when you attend college.

My own Son who has not 1 not 2 but 4 college degrees was routinely counseled away from all vocational classes. He was always told by his counselor (who knew that he was my Son) that he had to get his college prep courses done. I might also add that his experiences in his vocational courses (he never took my class) were not only great and memorable but are still providing him benefits to this day.

Simply put. If you graduate from a college you have demonstrated to your future employer one major achievement. You were DISCIPLINED enough to complete your degree. You jumped through the hoops. When you start your first job that's when you really begin to learn. Discipline is what gets you through life.

ASE or Automotive Service Excellence is the certifying agency for Automotive Technicians. And there are less than 3,000 certified RV technicians in this country.

Off my box!!!!

TeJay
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:16 PM   #17
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Boat, motorcycle, and car dealers deal with a limited number of brands. An RV dealer might have gas units made by Chevy, Ford or Dodge, diesels by Cummins, Caterpillar, Mercedes Benz, etc. To expect them to have trained mechanics for all those brands, plus the expensive diagnostic equipment to service them certainly seems to me to be, "over the top."
I disagree. The price tags are in the hundreds of thousands if not more, for each new coach. Sell ten coaches a year and its in the millions... IMO, if you want to play in the big boy toy game, you should be able to have a handful for techs that can handle the chassis work...

I feel that Marcus L. should focus more on fixing his own existing business problems and less time promoting Chase Ink... people, process, product is broken.

If you are willing to spend $400k+ on a new Tour and accept what the original poster complained about, then you deserve the treatment you get. I know I never will.
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:10 PM   #18
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As above, it is utterly and completely impractical for an RV dealership to maintain trained technicians, special tools, electronic diagnostic equipment, etc., for the drivetrain of every vehicle they sell and it's really kind of silly to expect it. The required investment is enormous even for dedicated dealers and it's doubtful that RV dealers could be approved as factory warranty stations in any event. Believe me, you're lucky that CW refused to service your Sprinter drivetrain issues... the very last thing you want is an untrained mechanic working on a modern diesel vehicle.
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:19 PM   #19
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As above, it is utterly and completely impractical for an RV dealership to maintain trained technicians, special tools, electronic diagnostic equipment, etc., for the drivetrain of every vehicle they sell and it's really kind of silly to expect it. The required investment is enormous even for dedicated dealers and it's doubtful that RV dealers could be approved as factory warranty stations in any event. Believe me, you're lucky that CW refused to service your Sprinter drivetrain issues... the very last thing you want is an untrained mechanic working on a modern diesel vehicle.
I was beginning to think I was one of the few who recognized the economics of the situation. The low volume of customers, the usual unprofitability of warranty work, and the investment in parts and equipment makes it an impossible goal for an RV dealer.
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:25 PM   #20
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Most 1st time MH buyers don't know about the split warranty and most dealers don't explain it to the buyers. I had no problem once I understood how it works.
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:37 PM   #21
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Good luck with a suitable solution.
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:17 AM   #22
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I would agree that most do not understand the two areas of warranty: Chassis manufacturer & the coach (RV) builder. We've had three MH's and little was mentioned regarding the two. I've mentioned this before and will again. I am friends with our local CW's GM. I will mention this fact to him and get his response. Maybe he'll decide to have his folks do a better job of explaining the two areas of concern to future buyers. Or maybe he won't. I don't really believe anybody benefits when this stuff is not discussed or covered in a PDI or during the closing of a deal for a new MH.

Many on these forums are mechanically adept but there are many who are not. Many rely on their local RV and chassis dealer to handle most all warranty work, as they should, and repairs after the warranty period is over. It has long been my belief that if one is entertaining this type of high dollar purchase they should also entertain spending a lot of time in training themselves to learn how to work on these beasts. Many of us have performed many, many of our own repairs and enjoy the challenges while saving much down time and often $$$$$.

In regards to an RV dealer being competent to work on chassis issues think about these two items.

Years ago if you wanted to venture away from American vehicles all you needed were a bunch of different (metric) tools which almost doubled your tool box). That's just one component these days. All of today's cars/trucks (starting in 1980) are computer controlled and becoming more and more technically sophisticated. That is also filtering itself down to the heavy truck industry (our MH chassis both diesel and gas). The Feds have made it mandatory that much of the data stream used to send information back and forth within these systems be accessible to all technicians (not just dealers). If you are a dealer you are required to purchase the necessary test equipment. If you are an independent then it's on you. This equipment can cost $10,000, $20,000 and more with annual updates needed at additional costs.

Even staying somewhat current with the service manual information is also expensive. Most manufacturers have stopped printing service manuals. Just last month I was at the Ford garage and was told that all the techs get the majority of their information on-line from Ford. Most of the info is available on CD's.

While I was still in the industry as an educator there were two systems available: "Mitichell-On-Demand & All-Data). There may be more today. At that time these systems were a $5,000 to $6,000 outlay with annual updates also needed.

Many manufacturers are also making some of their necessary information only available if you purchase their test equipment. If you worked on a Mercedes you would need their equipment which is not cheap.

One last point. Much of the repair industry is also driven by TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins). These surface when a problem is reported by a number of customers to dealers and the manufacturer responds with a fix/repair to a dealer. Fortunately these are now available on the internet.

TeJay
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Old 11-22-2014, 08:31 AM   #23
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My first consideration is which system has an issue, and who is the OEM. That always guides me to whom I call first, second or third. Generally that is CW Elite Services, and if it is a coach issue it depends on what system or component is in need of service and they should refer me accordingly. For coach body and your usual internal RV systems (coach body, awnings, slides, water, air, electric, appliances, furnishings, etc.) that would be CW. This is because in our case we are lifetime members with CW Elite, and we currently have an extended warranty on our coach, so an appointment with service at CW is in order. Keep in mind however and unfortunately, not all CW service centers are equal. Some have great service techs, great tech advisors, and great customer care skills; then others lack one or more of these qualities.

If the first can't support me regarding the coach and its RV systems I escalate up to a Winnebago Advisor, my second choice. It has typically been my best resource for experience and knowledge. But again, they are primarily a source pertaining to the coach body and its related internal RV systems only.

That means chassis, engine, transmission and generator issues are going to get you referred to an OEM authorized service provider, and since I know that the latter is my most expedient choice. In example, if it is a Infotainment/Nav issue I call RiverPark, a chassis or transmission issue I call Freightliner, an engine issue I call Cummins, a generator issue I call Onan. I concur that although you have warranties CW is not a one-stop shop, and they would simply refer you to the nearest OEM authorized service provider anyway.


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Old 11-22-2014, 09:12 AM   #24
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Chris,
That was well said and I concur with your thoughts and process. Here's an idea that I had several months ago. I spoke to the local GM at CW about my idea and I contacted Greg L the CEO of CW with the idea and it fell on deaf ears. Later I found out why.

Here it is. No repair facility can do it all. That's a given. CW's (about 120) are strategically located around the U.S.. Most of the time we either pass by them or they are not to far off the path. So you are driving along and something breaks. Wouldn't it be a great feeling if you could immediately find your list of CW's and head their way. Here's why. If a CW can't fix your problem they have a list of local shops that they have determined (through their own experiences) to be good repair facilities for those items that they currently can't fix.

You call ahead and explain. Then you pull in and show them what's going on. They assess the situation and say we have an idea what's wrong but don't have the tools/expertise to fix i. We know of a local shop that we have used in the past. We'll make an immediate appointment with the shop and have it taken care of ASAP.

That's what happened to me when the local Ford garage (10 miles from my house) couldn't align my coach. The next Ford garage that can is in Tulsa (100 miles), Springfield, MO (150 miles) or Fort Smith (75 miles).

Greg L the CEO has never responded and one of the local RV techs said that he (Greg L) believes that every one of his CW's should be able to fix everything that comes into his facilities. We know that's a pipe dream.

In defense of our local GM. He did say that he has a list of shops that he relies on to fix those items that they can't fix but it's not advertised or usually mentioned. I believe if it were a part of Greg L's advertising he'd gain a lot of points with the RV community.

If you were in our area and had a problem you could call me. I've lived here for 30 years. I can direct you to several quality facilities that can fix a lot of RV stuff. I can also point out a lot of shops that I would never use. Wouldn't that information be great/nice to have at every local CW?????

Many here rely on the informed posters to give them information for repair facilities in certain locations around the country.

TeJay
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:43 PM   #25
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Tejay, bless your heart. Wish I lived close enough to get on the spot advice sometimes. At the moment, all is well. I am 78 and disgustingly healthy and able to do my own work. Sure saves a ton of money and makes it possible to own a MH in the first place.
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Old 11-22-2014, 09:05 PM   #26
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Gray Ghost I,
Thanks for the blessing. I'll take them any time I can. You can call me anytime and I'll help anyway I can.

TeJay
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Old 11-23-2014, 05:41 AM   #27
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Sounds like we either have some Camping World Employees in on this one or some of you are just drinking the Kool Aid! There's a truck repair shop down the road from where I live that handles "most" chassis work for big rig trucks, motorhomes, and busses. They have 3 employees and I don't have to wait 3 weeks to get my coach in like I would at Campers World. So as far as them not being able to "do it all" on what they sell, I'm not buying it. This repair shop is not the only one around like this.

Marcus writes out million dollar checks to buy into businesses on his show the Profit. So it's not a affordability issue, nor is it a lack of work issue. IMO, if their buyers will accept buying a $400k motorhome there and getting the chassis work done someplace else, then there no incentive for Camping World to tool up and put out the money. Then when you buy into the split warranty idea, you can drive hundreds of miles and wait weeks for your Motorhome to get worked on.
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:27 AM   #28
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Be very thankful they did not work on it. This is what they "tried" to do installing a new satellite system on my last MH. I wouldn't set foot in another CW. They work hard to ruin a perfect MH. They are butchers and have NO mechanical ability what so ever! the patched area in front of the air horn is where they drilled "trying" to hit the entertainment center. That was their idea of repaired. Pictures are worth a 1,000 words.

Yes, I did make them install it correctly and send it to a professional body shop, NOT CW's body shop.
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