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Old 12-12-2012, 08:45 PM   #15
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Well, I hope we get an update after the O.P.'s "friend" goes in front of whatever Texas Judge knows the actual rules there in Texas!
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:44 PM   #16
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I think the key to this case in Texas is the interpretaion of "personal use".

It amazes me how much of a mystery this issue is in the RV world. I recently went through this process. The 1st obstacle is convincing the DPS of what my intentions were and what license I was applying for. Each step involved consultation with their supervisors.

The other thing is that there is no mention whatsoever from the RV dealers. In my case, I was allowed to drive off their lot towing a 43' (18K) 5th wheel and was never asked for my driver's license.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:47 PM   #17
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The case did go to court and the Judge said sorry, thats the way it is, your fine will be. I have recently learned that a 150 lb package was picked up in route and the LEO saw it being loaded into the back of the pickup which caused him to make the stop. He assumed that the pickup was being used as a commercial hauler. This whole thing is a mess and is being appealed.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Salad Bowl View Post
The case did go to court and the Judge said sorry, thats the way it is, your fine will be. I have recently learned that a 150 lb package was picked up in route and the LEO saw it being loaded into the back of the pickup which caused him to make the stop. He assumed that the pickup was being used as a commercial hauler. This whole thing is a mess and is being appealed.


I wonder what the LEO thought was in the 150 lb. package being picked up somewhere in Texas....
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:47 AM   #19
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Unless involved in commerce, no CDL is needed period! Many states do require an endorsement for certain RVs. There is more to the story as to why the officer stopped him.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:02 AM   #20
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Recently a friend of mine was moving a heavy fiver for a mutual friend with a Ram 4500, and was stopped by Law Enforcement, ( for whatever reason) and was told to cross the scales. All weights were right on except his overall gross which was 27,000 because he exceeded 26,000. 2 citations were issued, 1 for over gross and 1 for no CDL. My question is, is this the norm for towing units with a combined gross over 26,000 ?
Texas requires a special class license for RVs over 26,000 lb, so your friend is guilty on that count unless he is licensed in another state that does not require a special license. All states, including Texas, will honor the licensing requirements of a driver's home state.

As far as the CDL is concerned, a CDL is not required to drive or tow any RV UNLESS you are doing it for pay. Even if your friend got a few bucks to reimburse him for gas, I think a reasonable judge would not consider that driving for pay.

RVs are also not normally required to enter weigh stations. However, some states require the weighing of RVs being driven or towed by professional drivers such as those working for delivery companies. If the Ram 4500 has any kind of sign or company name on it, that may have been what prompted the LEO to stop your friend in the first place and require him to drive across the scales. However, as long as your friend was not receiving any kind of pay for moving the fiver, no CDL is required
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:57 AM   #21
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Here in Ontario you can with your regular drivers license drive or haul a trailer up to 24000 lbs . If your or anybodies unit weighs more than that you require a commercial D license.Airbrakes you require an airbrake endorsement. So you haul your friends overweight unit , D license. Weight is the important factor. What happens when you get into an accident? If you are not licensed properly the insurance want pay not to talk about all the fines.Cheers Gerald
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:56 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Scottybdivin View Post

The other thing is that there is no mention whatsoever from the RV dealers. In my case, I was allowed to drive off their lot towing a 43' (18K) 5th wheel and was never asked for my driver's license.
This happens not just in TX but was also common practice in MD which has the same sort of licensing law for RVs. It is absurd that the vehicle registration authorities in these states will permit you to register a vehicle you are not authorized to drive. Then to compound the ridiculous situation even more, insurance companies will write policies on them even though the owners shouldn't be driving them.

Of course, all this is great until you are stopped by the police or have an accident in which case you can get cited and, I guess, might even find your insurance canceled for "not having the correct class of license." Don't say this second part can't happen since we're seeing the first part come true.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:36 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salad Bowl View Post
The case did go to court and the Judge said sorry, thats the way it is, your fine will be. I have recently learned that a 150 lb package was picked up in route and the LEO saw it being loaded into the back of the pickup which caused him to make the stop. He assumed that the pickup was being used as a commercial hauler. This whole thing is a mess and is being appealed.
Please keep us informed of any appeal action. Those of us that are licensed in Texas have a stake in this.

Even if the truck had a business sign on it, section 522 of the Texas Code specifically states that a CDL is not required to drive a motorhome/RV when it is used for personal use. So anyone in a business could lend me their truck (have written permission) and I could pull 26,001 pound system with a regular Class A license. (or Class B) IN TEXAS.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:20 AM   #24
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I've already cited Section 522 of the Texas Transportation Code showing why a CDL is not required for personal use of an RV. The other half of the question is the upgraded NON-COMMERCIAL driver license requirement. This is covered by the Texas Transportation Code, Title 7, Subtitle B, Chapter 521, Subchapter D as follows (in Texas, a standard operator's license is a Class C below):

Quote:
SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSES

Sec. 521.081. CLASS A LICENSE. A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or
(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Sec. 521.082. CLASS B LICENSE. (a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;
(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing:
(A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or
(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and
(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.
(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502.162, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Sec. 521.083. CLASS C LICENSE. A Class C driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521.081 or 521.082; and
(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Sec. 521.084. CLASS M LICENSE. A Class M driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate a motorcycle or moped.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Sec. 521.085. TYPE OF VEHICLE AUTHORIZED.
(a) Unless prohibited by Chapter 522, and except as provided by Subsection (b), the license holder may operate any vehicle of the type for which that class of license is issued and any lesser type of vehicle other than a motorcycle or moped.
(b) Subsection (a) does not prohibit a license holder from operating a lesser type of vehicle that is a motorcycle described by Section 521.001(a)(6-a).

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Amended by:
Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 722, Sec. 4, eff. September 1, 2009.
Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 967, Sec. 2, eff. September 1, 2009.
Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 1391, Sec. 3, eff. September 1, 2009.
The definitions of Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) and Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) are those used in Section 522 as follows:

Quote:
Sec. 522.003. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

(17) "Gross combination weight rating" means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination or articulated vehicle or, if the manufacturer has not specified a value, the sum of the gross vehicle weight rating of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit or units and any load on a towed unit.

(18) "Gross vehicle weight rating" means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single vehicle.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:04 AM   #25
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Hi all,

I'm a Deputy Chief of Police for a municipality here in Texas. When it comes to enforcing weight restrictions, I have never seen a local citation written by local police for an invalid endorsement on a driver's license when the operator was driving a RV.

Point being most local officers are not familiar with the code when it comes to weights & measurements. We just don't have the time to be that picky. On the other hand if you are involved in an accident and we believe weight or length of the vehicle was a factor, we'll call for assistance from DPS.

I'd bet his citation was issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety. Those guys have special units that do nothing but vehicle inspections, mainly weights & measurements. Another point is they have the authority to stop and inspect any oversized vehicle for a safety inspection, so PC for the traffic stop is not much of a factor.

This is just for information, but odds are you will never receive a citation for a weight violation from local law enforcement. Now there may an officer or two somewhere in the state that does nothing but read and become familiar with the complete Texas Transportation Code.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:27 AM   #26
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I'm a Deputy Chief of Police for a municipality here in Texas. When it comes to enforcing weight restrictions, I have never seen a local citation written by local police for an invalid endorsement on a driver's license when the operator was driving a RV.

I'd bet his citation was issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety.
Hey, O.P.!

Was the ticket written by a Stater, a County Sheriff, a City LEO, or one of the TDPS guys mentioned above?
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:48 PM   #27
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Here is what I know,
Fact; company truck was borrowed ( verbal permission only )
Fact; LEO observed package being placed in back of pickup ( generating stop )
Fact: class C ( only ) drivers license.
opinion; somewhat mouthy from friend.
opinion; LEO was looking for something ( Sheriff Office ) something got his attention.
Fact; either called in or sent to scales.
opinion; some more mouth
Fact; over gross and not properly licensed ( no class A or CDL)
I think the moral here is have the proper endorsement ( I plan to update mine , just in case I might need it ) and hold the alligator mouth in check.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:58 PM   #28
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