Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > iRV2.com General Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-07-2005, 04:25 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Kirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Livingston, Tx., US
Posts: 162
The following is quoted exactly from the minutes of the August 15, 2005 council work session. It was testimony from citizens on a proposed change in ordinance that would have allowed RV owners to park overnight in a parking lot, with the permission of the owner of the lot. The notes are not edited in any way.

Quote:
City Council Work Session
August 15, 2005
5:30 PM
Community Center
"’ JUDY BARNES, YELLOWSTONE RIVER CAMPGROUND, asked the Council to keep the RV ordinance in place for several reasons:

1) to collect the bed tax used to benefit buildings, rest stops, and tourism
2) the voluminous numbers of RVers using the West End Wal-Mart parking lot
3) campgrounds generate most business during the summer months of the year
4) many of the people writing to complain are "escapees" from Livingston, TX who are fulltime RVers with no fixed address who live free in RVs. These people drain their tanks into storm drains and along roadways and dump their trash in other peoples receptacles
5) local campgrounds send campers to other tourist facilities that bring dollar into the community
She asked the Council to look at the big picture and keep the ordinance in place.
"’ CAROL LINDE, BILLINGS KOA, said the KOA, Eastwood Estate, Trailer Village and
Yellowstone River Campground all advertise. She said they are outraged by the Gazette's editorial regarding the RV matter. She noted that the campground owners were never contacted for their viewpoint. She submitted a letter outlining her views, objecting to the "boondocking" practice of the freeloading RVers that use public services without paying for the benefit. She noted the bed tax that is a portion of the campground fees that goes directly to the state general fund and for the legislators to spend as they wish. Ms. Linde said Montana is lagging in tourism promotion compared with other states. She also noted that the campground's profits are kept and spent locally. She asked if Billings wants "freeloaders" in their City, as most of the letter writers are from out-of-state. She asked the Council to continue to enforce the RV ordinance.
__________________

__________________
Good travelin! ......Kirk
URL: www.1tree.net/adventure/
Kirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-07-2005, 04:25 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Kirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Livingston, Tx., US
Posts: 162
The following is quoted exactly from the minutes of the August 15, 2005 council work session. It was testimony from citizens on a proposed change in ordinance that would have allowed RV owners to park overnight in a parking lot, with the permission of the owner of the lot. The notes are not edited in any way.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
City Council Work Session
August 15, 2005
5:30 PM
Community Center
"’ JUDY BARNES, YELLOWSTONE RIVER CAMPGROUND, asked the Council to keep the RV ordinance in place for several reasons:

1) to collect the bed tax used to benefit buildings, rest stops, and tourism
2) the voluminous numbers of RVers using the West End Wal-Mart parking lot
3) campgrounds generate most business during the summer months of the year
4) many of the people writing to complain are "escapees" from Livingston, TX who are fulltime RVers with no fixed address who live free in RVs. These people drain their tanks into storm drains and along roadways and dump their trash in other peoples receptacles
5) local campgrounds send campers to other tourist facilities that bring dollar into the community
She asked the Council to look at the big picture and keep the ordinance in place.
"’ CAROL LINDE, BILLINGS KOA, said the KOA, Eastwood Estate, Trailer Village and
Yellowstone River Campground all advertise. She said they are outraged by the Gazette's editorial regarding the RV matter. She noted that the campground owners were never contacted for their viewpoint. She submitted a letter outlining her views, objecting to the "boondocking" practice of the freeloading RVers that use public services without paying for the benefit. She noted the bed tax that is a portion of the campground fees that goes directly to the state general fund and for the legislators to spend as they wish. Ms. Linde said Montana is lagging in tourism promotion compared with other states. She also noted that the campground's profits are kept and spent locally. She asked if Billings wants "freeloaders" in their City, as most of the letter writers are from out-of-state. She asked the Council to continue to enforce the RV ordinance.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
__________________

__________________
Good travelin! ......Kirk
URL: www.1tree.net/adventure/
Kirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2005, 08:02 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 71
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ms. Linde said Montana is lagging in tourism promotion compared with other states. She also noted that the campground's profits are kept and spent locally. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So far I have seen this mentioned on other forums but I finnally got the chance to read the whole thing.
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>--First let me say; That I will definitely not be going to Billings Mo.
Second; --she is an idiot.
Third; --When I do stop overnight at Walmart, I put from $100.00 to $200.00 into their economy. We buy our supplies, eat in the town and visit the sites and spend more money. Also, we buy our gas when we stop. So if this doesn't help their economy then she doesn't know how to calculate. We usually tour the towns during the day. Spend money, Stay overnight and move on.
Fourth; --She has her own agenda.
Fifth; --She might offer a discounts for those of us they may stop for just overnight.
Sixth; --She is an idiot with her own agenda.
Seventh; --Does that board realize she is an idiot and
Eight; --We usually stay in campgrounds. But, there are times that I am so tired, I will stop at a Flying J or Walmart so that I don't fall asleep at the wheel. How friendly is this town that I am not staying in or even going to pass through. I would be afraid that I might break down and have to stay overnight.
Lastly; --She is an idiot.[/list]Well, I must add that she and her statements are making the rounds in the RV internet community. And she is an idiot.
Sorry, I couldn't resist any longer.
My Web Site
__________________
tonigil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2005, 10:48 PM   #4
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
.....her key point is we are not freeloaders or bad persons only if we stay in her KOA.....she is an idiot......and thinks we are dumb or something.....Montana you aren't going to miss me- right?.....geofkaye
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2005, 10:08 AM   #5
Member
 
Rainbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 92
Kirk
Do you know if anyone else spoke at the work session? Do you know if the Council is scheduled to vote on the ordinance?
There sure seemed to be a lot of locals on the Gazzett's forum wanting the ordinance repealed. Keep us informed. Thanks
__________________
Rainbow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2005, 08:37 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Kirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Livingston, Tx., US
Posts: 162
Rainbow,
Only the two campground owners spoke at that meeting about that subject. It was a council work session when they were hearing public input on the next agenda for consideration. There were no votes taken at that meeting, but the change was dropped at the next regular meeting.

If you wish, you can find the minutes on the Billings city web site. Go to city council and then search for the minutes of Aug. 15, 2005.
__________________
Good travelin! ......Kirk
URL: www.1tree.net/adventure/
Kirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2005, 05:40 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4
This was copied from the Trailer Life Forum.
A man from Billings wrote the mayor requesting the city code/ law and asked for definitions of the wording included.
So it seems that the majority of hate and discontent is from the 2 gals who have Rv parks their and are just following ARVC's agenda of using existing laws to move every one into teir parks.

So if the city council would get this repealed , Walmart and their neighbors could get the signs down.
-----------------------------------------



Can you post a copy (or reference to one) of that law?

wrjohns
-----------------------------

I don't have a reference as to the number of the city code, but this is the text of the law as quoted in the Billings Gazette, in an email I sent to the Mayor:
"It is unlawful for any person to park any motor vehicle for camping
purposes in the city except in an authorized tourist park."

Please give the legal definition of the following terms, as used in the above sentence:
1. Motor Vehicle
2. Camping
3. Authorized tourist park

Thank you.

This is the response from the Mayor, and the response from the Assistant City Attorney:

From : Addy, Kelly
Sent : Friday, August 5, 2005 4:48 PM
To : "Jon Poe"
CC : "Brooks, Brent" , "Tooley, Chuck-Avista email"
Subject : RE: definitions...

Dear Mr. Poe:

At Mayor Tooley's request, I provide you with the following definitions that would be applicable to the provisions of Billings City Code Section 24-411:

Motor vehicle. (1) "Motor vehicle": (a) means a vehicle propelled by its own power and designed or used to transport persons or property upon the highways of the state. Section 61-1-102, MCA.

Camping. Camping is an outdoor recreational activity involving the spending of one or more nights in a tent, primitive structure, a travel trailer or recreational vehicle at a campsite with the purpose of getting away from civilization and enjoying nature. Camping describes a whole range of activity, from survivalist campers who set off with little more than their boots to those who arrive in large recreational vehicles equipped with their own electricity, heat, and patio furniture.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camping

Authorized tourist park. A parcel of land available to and principally used by the public for camping, where persons can camp, secure tents or cabins, or park trailers for camping and sleeping purposes which has obtained a license from the State Department of Health and Human Services in accordance with §50-52-101, et seq., MCA and Administrative Rules of Montana §37.111.201, et seq.

Kelly Addy
Deputy City Attorney


-----Original Message-----
From: Tooley, Chuck-Avista email
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 3:52 PM
To: Jon Poe
Cc: Brooks, Brent
Subject: Re: definitions...


Hi, Jon -

By copy of this message, I'm asking our city attorney's office to get you
those definitions. Thanks for contacting me.

Chuck Tooley

Please note the Assistant City Attorney's definition of "camping".
Based on that definition, I would say that it is IMPOSSIBLE to "camp" in a parking lot inside the city limits. I took note of the parking lot signs yesterday when we went to town, and most of them say, in one form or another, "CAMPING prohibited". There are some that state "overnight parking prohibited", as well.
Also note that the law specifically states "motor vehicles", which, by the Assistant City Attorneys's definition, excludes trailers of all types.

* This post was edited 09/05/05 12:37pm by mowermech *
__________________
deulin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2005, 07:17 PM   #8
Member
 
Mrs. Mik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Abbotsford Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 50
Here's a copy of the e-mail that I sent to the Billings Gazette. A copy also went to the President of the Chamber of Commerce:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have been following the story of RV parking at Wal-Mart in Billings for some time now. It has made the rounds of every internet camping forum I belong to mainly due to the nature of the horrible comments made by Carol Linde regarding RVers.

As the owner of the KOA in Billings, Ms. Linde has not ingratiated herself with the RVing community after referring to us as "freeloaders." If her businesses are suffering, they are suffering because of her attitude toward the very group of people that provide her with her livelihood. The RV community is quite large and the internet has helped us to spread the word that Ms. Linde and Billings do not want, nor do they need the money that tourists bring to your community and state.

My husband and I frequently travel and frequently do not stop driving until 10 p.m. or later. At that point, I will not pull into a campground and pay anywhere from $20 to $39 for a campsite. In addition, at every KOA we have ever stayed at, I am penalized for having children and must pay an additional $3.00 per child, per day. I absolutely refuse to pay that amount of money to park for six to seven hours to get some sleep so that I can continue on the road the next day. I have absolutely no need of Ms. Linde's campground for that amount of time and do not need any of the services she may provide in her campground.

Aside from the outrageous fees charged by Ms. Linde's campground, were I to pull in at 10 p.m. or later, there is no one in the office to direct me to a site. Would Ms. Linde prefer for me to simply pick a site and disturb the sleeping campers with my diesel truck while attempting to level my rig? If Ms. Linde's sites are anything like the other KOA's we've visited in the past, I will most definitely need to pull up on some blocks to become level. Additionally, I highly doubt that those same neighbors will appreciate me starting up my diesel truck at 6 a.m. while preparing to leave. What I DO need is a quiet, secure place to sleep without having to worry about backing into trees in the dark. The answer to that need is a Wal-Mart or Camping World parking lot. I can simply climb into my RV and get six or seven hours of sleep. In the morning, I will patronize the store and spend some of my hard-earned money. Freeloading? I don't think so!

Ms. Linde has made it abundantly clear that she has no need or desire for RVers in Billings. It appears that Ms. Linde may be getting her wish as on each of the RV forums that I participate in, folks are rerouting their trips to avoid Billings and have now labeled Billings as "RV unfriendly". It's time for the City Council to decide who brings more money into the city -- RVers or Ms. Linde.

Sincerely,

Julie Mik </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only way to let them know you won't be there is to send them a letter!

You can e-mail the Gazette at: speakup@billingsgazette.com
And the president of the Chamber at: john@billingschamber.com

Keep in mind, a well written letter is going to get more attention than a furious "rant." From what I read on the Billings Gazette forum, they've received some pretty nasty e-mails. I can't say for sure that they were from RVers, but in my opinion, most likely from people like Carol Linde pretending to be a rude, classless, tasteless, freeloading RVer.


Julie
__________________
Mrs. Mik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 03:53 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
SeeTheUSA's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,454
Very nice letter, Julie. You're right, an intelligent letter will better serve the need to make the point. Think about it . . . how many ranting red necks do you pay much attention?
__________________
Warren and Debbie, Deep in The Heart of Texas, 2018 Winnebago View 24D
2014 Tiffin Breeze 32BR, 2012 Winnebago Navion 24G, 2006 Winnebago View 23H
SeeTheUSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 05:10 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,383
Under the law it reads "for camping purposes" and under the definition it reads "with the purpose of getting away from civilization and enjoying nature."

I've never stayed at the West End Wal-Mart that Ms. Barnes referred to, so I'm curious as to how many of you "boondocking freeloaders" stayed there to "get away from civilization and enjoy nature." I always assumed Wal-Marts preferred to locate close to civilization and I"ve always enjoyed the beauty of nature from a well lit paved parking lot, don't you?
__________________
Bob Russo
Formerly had 07 Neptune 36PDQ, ISB 325, Allison 2500, Source Trailing Arms and Ride Enhancement Kit, Demco KarKaddy 460SS.
Currently no Motorhome
Nonno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2005, 01:31 PM   #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2
Hi,
Billings will not have us stopping in an time in the future. Same goes for the people over in Spearfish, South Dakota.
__________________
ColorMeGone

1997 Foretravel
ColorMeGone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2005, 04:00 PM   #12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Omaha
Posts: 1
I think it is extremely important that we all voice our opinions to both the local Chamber of Commerce as well as the Billings Gazzette. This woman will have no business and the community needs to know the reason for it. Narrowmindedness (otherwise known as idiotitis")has killed many a business in the past but our collective integrity has been attacked and for us to remain silent is to say she may be right.
If you can't write tonight, try to do it tomorrow before you forget about it. Both of those emails are furnished above. Thank the Lord for email so we can be an organized disorganized community and protect our reputation. The community of Billings, MT will never know they are missing out on the nicest, most considerate, most wonderful people on the planet. Is there another community in Montana, close to Billings where we could visit and drop a lot of money and make sure they know it is from RVers? Maybe then Billings would get the word.
__________________
Carolrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 08:33 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
MMouser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 193
Persons with an agenda get away with changing the laws because so many individuals just do not pay attention to what is going on in their own communities.
Billings is a nice town and located in a location that is perfect to stop for the night, usually late. Shop, dine or just restock the RV. Do you not think that there are many Billings residence that own RV's of all styles and sizes. People just do not know what is going on in their own back yards.
Many of the rv's seen out west are from farmers/ranchers driving in for supplies and getting a few winks while doing so.
It is a shame when KOA owners go to such length's to pass laws specifically for their personal benefit. I like KOA's when I have a need for them, not just because they have a need for me.
It is in most cases the local KOA that has been educated in how to go about saving the community from the way word trash that camps in Wally World in their 50/70/100/500/1000k rigs.
I will continue to stop at the Wal-Mart in Billings when running up to Polson from Rapid City after Sturgis. There are times when running North from Jackson or the park that Billings Wal-Mart allows you to take a well deserved nap.
I will shop and have receipts. I do not intend on spending twenty four hours in the same parking (spots)but I will spend as much time as needed as I always do when the need arises.
Thank you Sam for thinking of us in your original plan. It was your 5&10 that made the town that the KOA wanted to be located in.
__________________

__________________
You must have FALLEN OFF the TURNIP TRUCK!
Heck no I was DRIVING.
Class:A, 45',Super Duty diesel toad,H-D load.
MMouser is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Our 15 Minutes of FAME on ESPN! RVThere RV'ing Humor & Crazy but True Stories 6 10-21-2008 06:42 AM
DTV $10.00, 10 minutes Don The Ham Technology: Internet, TV, Satellite, Cell Phones, etc. 13 06-19-2008 06:06 AM
Council Bluffs,Iowa funston Camping Locations, Plans & Trip Reports 3 06-07-2008 12:40 PM
Billings Mt. Alarmguy iRV2.com General Discussion 4 12-03-2005 06:17 PM
Billings, Montana now RV-Unfriendly? Kirk iRV2.com General Discussion 66 08-29-2005 10:19 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.