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Old 02-10-2014, 07:49 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by mojoracing View Post
They are actually using the 70000.00 as cash difference. (look at one of the sheets I posted and fill it in with the following.

selling price 115900.00
trade in -45900.00
cash differ 70000.00
payoff +38000.00
taxes + 4530.00
=112530.00

looks like there was some miscommunication between selling price and cash difference.
Your answer is right there--- Selling price 115,900! NOT $70,000 you stated earlier in the post. You have to straighten out the first line, then everything will fall in line. What these figures are indicating is that they are selling you the unit for $70,000 AFTER TRADE. The rest of the numbers don't matter. If he offered you the RV for 70,000 cash, then, yes, this shows them getting your rv for nothing.

Just wondering, what is the sales tax where you live? I ask because the the amount of tax they added. In most states, the sales tax is taken on the full amount of the sale (115900) while other states give you a break on the sales tax and only tax you on the difference. (70,000) Its interesting because this is close to 6 1/2% on the difference or 3.9% on the original amount. I am also wondering about the payoff figure. In 50 yrs of buying, I have NEVER had a payoff that was a nice round amount. If you haven't done this deal, I would call who ever you are sending your payments to and ask them what the PAY OFF is on your RV- Not "what is owed" but the payoff.

According to these figures, you are getting 45,900 for your trade less 38,000 for you pay off. in other words you have $7,900 value in your old RV.

Walt
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:51 PM   #58
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mojo has pretty much covered it but if you want shoot me a pm and I will plug the #s in my car lot finance program and email you what a no BS deal should look like. if the asking price on the new coach was 70k either the guy that wrote it is a idiot or a crook.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:54 PM   #59
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A dealer tried the same thing on me but what they did was the new coach was $228,000.00, If I didn't trade he would sell it to me for $185,000.00 but if I tried to trade he kept going back to the $228,000.00 price I did have a Tiffin dealer tell me he would give me $75,000.00 for my coach and he would sell me his for $185,000.00 but I could not get a Newmar dealer to take the same deal
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:29 PM   #60
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To simplify, the 70000 they gave you is after your trade in.
Didn't the OP state that he negotiated a sales price of $70,000 without any trade being part of the deal? I thought the OP said the trade only came into play after the sales price was negotiated.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:47 PM   #61
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Mojo, you said you were a dealer, I hope this is not a typical situation you deal with, I don't know how many ways you could make it any clearer.. Like you posted earlier, ding ding ding. We have a winner! :-)
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:48 PM   #62
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Mojo had explained it every which way with what was given & I see his figures as spot on.

Others have mentioned "OUT THE DOOR" price. From what the OP has told us, I feel as though the word GREED [on behalf of the dealer] comes into play.

BTW, please tell us about the MH.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:57 PM   #63
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Sorry everyone. Had too leave for a while. Cash price.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:07 PM   #64
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Superslif, The posted price was $119.995.00. A new 2013 stock Thor Challenger 37DT. It had been sitting on the lot for over 265 days. The floor mgr(of the dealership) said put an offer in of $70K. We did. Then it went downhill when the finance mgr came back with the ridiculous price of adding back the $38K payoff + taxes(tax was not the problem).
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:17 PM   #65
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Thanks for all your help! Bottom line is we will no longer deal with dealers. They can flip the numbers so quick it makes your head spin. Thought I was dealing with a reputable dealer. I was a salesman for 30 years and I never tried to dazzle and confuse my customers with a 8 1/2 x 11 inch paper covered with every mgrs chicken scratch on both sides to the point my salesman wasn't even sure what they were doing. In comes the finance mgr. with numbers that were never discussed. So glad we walked away. Sad thing is, my brother was working on another coach himself. They lost two sales. Thanks everybody!
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:50 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Edski1999 View Post
Thanks for all your help! Bottom line is we will no longer deal with dealers. They can flip the numbers so quick it makes your head spin. Thought I was dealing with a reputable dealer. I was a salesman for 30 years and I never tried to dazzle and confuse my customers with a 8 1/2 x 11 inch paper covered with every mgrs chicken scratch on both sides to the point my salesman wasn't even sure what they were doing. In comes the finance mgr. with numbers that were never discussed. So glad we walked away. Sad thing is, my brother was working on another coach himself. They lost two sales. Thanks everybody!
Glad you were able to make sense of it and walk away from the deal.

There will always be another one.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:54 PM   #67
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I will never deal with a dealer that gives me this "cash" price vs "trade" price. The truth is that IF the dealer gives you the honest trade in price against the lowest amount they can sell the bus for, they will make much more when they take a trade. On a new unit, there is just so much markup you can make. It is very easy to shop other dealers to find the best price. On a used unit, there is really no way to "price shop" the used unit. This means the dealer will always make a much higher markup on the used unit.

What the "trade price" means is that the dealer is NOT giving you an honest trade in price. They are lying to you when they say they are giving you $45,000 for the trade, they are giving you much less (most likely the "real" wholesale price) and lying to you to make it look better. If they can't tell you the truth on pricing, what else are they going to lie to you about?
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:43 PM   #68
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You are not going to get the dealer to give you a reasonable trade in value for your coach, and then expect them to pay off your existing loan too.....

I hope you can see that you are asking a cash value for your coach that is far more value then what you said it was worth... You are expecting the dealer to give you $83,900 for your coach. I don't know what the NADA retail value is, but going from your earlier posts, I think you said was a retail value of $52,000.

It looks to me that this is simply your lack of understanding of finance, not the dealer that was the issue here... I hope you have learned something about finance from this...
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:11 AM   #69
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Ted I think Mojo showed that they were tring to take the trade for only the difference of payoff and trade in value. somewhere around 6800. a slick finance manager can muddy the #s so much it would take a CPA to figure out what he did.
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:33 AM   #70
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Sounds to me like the issue was the 1yr old coach. Initially, the said they'd sell that to the OP for $70k?...then when the trade got involved, they went back to near list price on the unit.
This is pretty common with most car dealers as well. Walk into any of them and tell them you want to buy such-and-such a car and ask for their best price. They come back with $30k. NOW tell them you want to trade your old car in. You'll either take a beating on the old car, accepting something below wholesale for it, or the $30K price will no longer be valid on the car you're buying.
This is why every car salesperson is taught to ask right up front, before ANY price negotiations, "Are you trading something in?"...

The other way to keep numbers straight on a deal like this is to remember that there's only ONE number that matters. That number is the "My coach plus how much?" number. And keep in mind that you still owe money on your coach. If a dealer says I'll give you this coach here for $25K plus your coach,", and you owe $35K on your coach, that means you'll be financing $60K. It's the "difference" number that matters. That takes all of the fudge out of the deal. Doesn't matter what they're selling their coach for, and it doesn't matter what they're giving you for your coach. Only thing that matters is the difference.
Take the difference, plus what you owe on your old coach, and that's the loan amount...period.
That eliminates all of the "games" that you can run into.
Difference + Owed = Loan.
Done.

Jim
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