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Old 07-31-2014, 01:09 PM   #15
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My coach is a 2011 with no def. It's engine was probably sitting at Monaco's facility for a while before they used it.
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Old 07-31-2014, 06:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no3putt View Post
Think it was model year 2010, my 2009 dosen't use it
Same here.
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:02 PM   #17
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As I understand. DEF is a urea compound. If you don't have a can when you need to replenish it, can you pee in the tank?

As yu can tell, we aren't diesel owners. The only diesel I ever had was a 1988 Datsun pick-up.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:42 PM   #18
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Smile Pee in the tank?

You can pee in the tank only if you have certified 32.5% urea content in your pee. And no other additives.
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Old 08-02-2014, 01:09 PM   #19
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It is my understanding that DEF. Is not much more than
refined horse pee!! I believe in the inviroment. But think they
could devise a better way. JIMHO.
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:15 PM   #20
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Gary's reply is accurate and well stated. The only addition I would make is that as of 2014, all OFF road diesel s(agriculture, mining, forestry, etc.) are also require to meet EPA 2010 protocols for reduced NOx emissions. As of 2017, the protocols also apply to Marine diesels and generators.

DEF is pure urea and pure water only and must meet stringent requirements for purity. The required concentration is 32.5% urea.
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Old 08-04-2014, 09:07 AM   #21
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Smile

Quote:
It is my understanding that DEF. Is not much more than
refined horse pee!! I believe in the inviroment. But think they
could devise a better way.
LOL. You've been listening to oldtimer campfire tales. Urea is found in pee, to be sure, but it is also used in many other substances and chemical processes, including the manufacture of many fertilizers. It's a convenient chemical way to provide nitrogen where needed.

The notion that armies of people are standing behind horses with buckets to collect urine and then refining it to make DEF is hilarious. Urea is synthesized in plants designed to produce it in industrial quantities. It is made from ammonia and carbon dioxide, two very common and easily produced molecules. Then the urea is carefully mixed with distilled water to make DEF.
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer View Post
LOL. You've been listening to oldtimer campfire tales. Urea is found in pee, to be sure, but it is also used in many other substances and chemical processes, including the manufacture of many fertilizers. It's a convenient chemical way to provide nitrogen where needed.

The notion that armies of people are standing behind horses with buckets to collect urine and then refining it to make DEF is hilarious. Urea is synthesized in plants designed to produce it in industrial quantities. It is made from ammonia and carbon dioxide, two very common and easily produced molecules. Then the urea is carefully mixed with distilled water to make DEF.
That takes all the fun out of the discussion except the horses and buckets.

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Old 11-29-2014, 05:59 PM   #23
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My coach is a 2011 with no def. It's engine was probably sitting at Monaco's facility for a while before they used it.

Hello; If your still tuned in, I would very much like to know how you are making out with your Cayman. We are just about to buy the same year and model. It is used with about 7000ml on it. DW fell for it right away. We are comparing it with a 2012 Fleetwood Providence PDQ. Kind of apples to oranges but... It's always nice to hear an experienced owner's view. Thanks in advance for anything you can think of. Bob
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Old 11-29-2014, 06:20 PM   #24
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It is my understanding that DEF. Is not much more than
refined horse pee!! I believe in the inviroment. But think they
could devise a better way. JIMHO.
EPA doesn't care how you get the emissions down just that they are below certain levels. Engine manufactures tried everything they could, lot of r&d, to avoid def but nothing panned out. Many engines leading up to that point tried extensive egr to run the engine cooler for less nox which also lead to worse performance and mileage, with def they where able to go back to very lean and hot again while destroying the nox with def. Engine efficiency goes up with combustion temps but so does nox emissions. Nox emissions are on the other side of HC emsssions that you associate with old inefficient engines, nox comes from high efficiency lean burning engines like a modern diesel. Nitrogen and oxygen air fuse into nox under high temps and pressures. Def reverts the nox back to oxygen and nitrogen in the exhaust.

So getting a non def engine in the years just prior to def may may get you worse mileage and power compared to a def engine. The def system does add more things that can go wrong, just like everything else in a modern engine.

Def lets us have hot diesels without acid rain, there is currently no better way.
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:22 PM   #25
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Hello; If your still tuned in, I would very much like to know how you are making out with your Cayman. We are just about to buy the same year and model. It is used with about 7000ml on it. DW fell for it right away. We are comparing it with a 2012 Fleetwood Providence PDQ. Kind of apples to oranges but... It's always nice to hear an experienced owner's view. Thanks in advance for anything you can think of. Bob
Still tuned in. Have had the Cayman for 3 years now & love it. The only issues we had were with the Lippert hydraulic pump. Finally got that straightened out & has pretty much been trouble free for 2 years now. We constantly get comments on how nice the coach looks both inside & out. Last time I checked mpg was a little better than 8.
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:25 PM   #26
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Just make sure the DEF goes into the DEF tank & not the Diesel fuel tank. We had one of the guys at work put DEF into the fuel tank & it took about $10,000.00 to get it fixed (6.7 Ford).
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:30 AM   #27
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I don't have a problem with DEF for all the right environmental reasons. I do have a problem with the tank location on my Discovery. It would be much more convenient on the driver's side.

Guess I will have to trade for a new Newmar since the have moved the tank to the proper place. At least that's what I'm telling my DW....
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:19 PM   #28
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Still tuned in. Have had the Cayman for 3 years now & love it. The only issues we had were with the Lippert hydraulic pump. Finally got that straightened out & has pretty much been trouble free for 2 years now. We constantly get comments on how nice the coach looks both inside & out. Last time I checked mpg was a little better than 8.

Thanks again; Excuse my ignorance, but is the Lippert hydraulic pump supplying the pressure for the leveling jacks. It's great to hear that you are enjoying nearly trouble free use of your motor home. We are going to sign the papers today, and this makes us more comfortable. It's a big decision to make for anyone I guess. Best of times and happy camping. Bob
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