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Old 11-12-2008, 08:59 AM   #267
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Can you believe the number of responses?

My police-officer son-in-law as a cadet was told by his instructor that, "Nothing but trouble comes out of the end of that barrel."
My only caveat is that, if that barrel is pointed at me, I'm in real trouble. I NEVER want to have to shoot anyone; the only thing I want more is to not let them shoot me or mine.

I've only heard of a couple incidents involving RVs, but I have no clue how many I have NOT heard of. And the close calls you never hear of, because the threat was thwarted by someone able to thwart it? Many, including a few I am personally aware of.

So do I carry? Wouldn't admit it, even if I did.
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:29 AM   #268
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DW and I both have ccw permits. Only once has anyone known that I was carrying concealed. That was in a CG and a drunk local thought he should be able to take anything he wanted from our camp. He decided to leave thing as they were when he brought a baseball bat to a gun fight. As has been said many times in this thread, "Rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
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Old 11-12-2008, 03:47 PM   #269
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I carry at all times (even flying).

With the right to carry comes the responsibility to get trained in proficiency and the law.

Woe be to the do-gooder RVer who intervenes in a situation, draws a weapon and injures or kills an innocent bystander. Not only would you be looking at jail time, but you can kiss away all your worldly assets.

Get trained. Keep records of your training and scores on the range. I can personally recommend Gunsite in Arizona as one of the finest weapons training centers in the world. They train average Joes and Janes as well as the Seals and Special Forces from the military and LE agencies.

BTW, they have an RV park at Gunsite with laundry room etc. The place is beautiful. The training can save your life and help you avoid doing something really stupid (liability) with a weapon.
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:22 AM   #270
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When I first began carrying I asked State Farm if my umbrella would work if i shot an innocent bystander. The answer was yes, presuming that the shooting was legal.
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:29 AM   #271
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Quote:
... When I first began carrying I asked State Farm if my umbrella would work if i shot an innocent bystander. The answer was yes, presuming that the shooting was legal.

Who decides if it is a 'legal shooting' if you shoot an innocent bystander ??
You are going to be arrested and most probably tried.
And probably StateFarm will cover a good part of the huge civil suit which will immediatly follow.
I understand it was just an academic question, and it was an interesting one too.
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:33 AM   #272
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After 32 years in Law Enforcement, I can tell you that there are LOTS of threats out there that you have no perception of. As RV'ers, we travel among them daily, and may never know that we were at risk. IF you decide to carry a gun, get training. Then, unless you are absolutely certain that you could use it to defend yourself or another, do not carry one. All you will be doing is bringing a gun to your assault, which will be taken away from you and used against you in all probability.
Never use a weapon to intervene in a property crime, as it will get you arrested. The only reason to use deadly force is to protect yourself or another who is in IMMEDIATE danger of serious bodily harm, and has no avenue of escape. Think twice, know your limitations.
Also, count me as an ALWAYS.
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:18 AM   #273
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I would be curious to know how many times those people that "always" or "often" carry a weapon have had occassion to actually use it .By use it, I mean actually firing it at a perpetrator. As opposed to all of those who "never" or "rarely" carry a weapon .
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:12 AM   #274
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I would be curious to know how many times those people that "always" or "often" carry a weapon have had occassion to actually use it .By use it, I mean actually firing it at a perpetrator. As opposed to all of those who "never" or "rarely" carry a weapon .

I think you'll find there are no statistics that help clarify any need. The statistics that matter are the DOJ data derived ones. They show crime is deterred by armed resistance. Nearly every other stat is formed or tweaked to influence a political opinion, mostly to argue for civilian dissarmament and passive submission to attack. A psychological defense mechanism called projection that weak people use to deal with their hoplophobia.

Also, the use of a firearm or defensive weapon only makes a useable statistic when processed after a crime. Many people (1.x million times a year) use a gun and don't fire on anyone. Botton line, if you need a gun nothin matters but where a gun is...no matter what, period. That one time Anyone needs a gun could be your turn.

I've spoken to many RV'ers and many carry a shotgun or pistol. Why? The concensus seems to be "Because its my job to protect my family." A job that cannot be delegated to another person or organization.

Just some thoughts from a guy + family that Did need a gun, Did have a gun and Thanks God he did Not have to fire the gun.

Carry, -tell no one-, train -often-, stay frosty -watch their hands, hands kill-, deescalate, retreat, use a gun only as a last resort to a threat of deadly force, -never over property-.

Best
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:26 AM   #275
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Other then those that are or were police officers, or military in a war situations, you might not find anyone who has actually shot at someone. The real answer to your question for us is ...No, Never thank goodness. My wife and I are both retired from the military and have handled hand guns a lot and have no concerns we could protect our selfs if needed. The Key is "if Needed" we hope we never need to. We do not carry a hand gun to only protect us against a person who might do us harm, we camp in places which are not in a city and have unfriendly animals, and there might be a time a rabid dog, wolf, coyote,raccoon, skunk, rattle snake, and yes we have even seen bear might decide they want to invade our camper and might need a shot to the ground to scare them off.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:31 AM   #276
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Hoplophobia!!! Sweet ..because I ask a reasonable question I am afraid of guns? Oh.. and all statistics that say something I don't agree with are "tweaked" except for the statistics that I agree with!.. Come on... get real.. What about the statistics that say how many people are injured or killed with a weapon by somebody they know ..i.e.accident ..how would those be tweaked ?
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:36 AM   #277
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Quote:
... I would be curious to know how many times those people that "always" or "often" carry a weapon have had occassion to actually use it .By use it, I mean actually firing it at a perpetrator. As opposed to all of those who "never" or "rarely" carry a weapon .
Quote:
(Tboh) ... I think you'll find there are no statistics that help clarify any need. ...
Tboh, ... and that is exactly why the question had been posed by Horatio54,
....and i thought it was a good question, one that didn't need to be answered with namecalling and generalizations from you.

I have wondered that same thing many times myself. I quit carrying when RV'ing for the most part because of my answer to myself of that same exact question.

and your "weak ... hoplophobia"s ???
No, i just decided to keep my 9 guns at home in thier safes, even the small Kimber 1911 and the bigger 870, because ..
- i generally feel safe out there, and,
- we tended to have cocktail hours while out there and i didn't want the two to mix

safe Mike who enjoys supportive conversations
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:39 AM   #278
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( Horatio, . i think we both posted similar replies at the exact same time )
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:44 AM   #279
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Folks, let's keep the posts about the topic under discussion.

Personal comments are not permitted.

Thanks.

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Old 11-20-2008, 09:37 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally posted by horatio54:
Hoplophobia!!! Sweet ..because I ask a reasonable question I am afraid of guns? Oh.. and all statistics that say something I don't agree with are "tweaked" except for the statistics that I agree with!.. Come on... get real.. What about the statistics that say how many people are injured or killed with a weapon by somebody they know ..i.e.accident ..how would those be tweaked ?
Woah 54! That comment was directed at those that skew statistics to their liking, that is a common tactic of those that like to influence others. I don't like anyone doing it on any side of an arguement. Fact remains, predatory violence is only deterred by protective violence. I hope we can at least agree on that . Also, 85% of all stats are made up...

Actually, I thought your question was asked as a matter curiosity, as you clarified, not as one intended to reveal any bias or opinion etc., I read none in it and wasn't referring to you.

But your -umph- in your post here makes me think I hit a nerve. Please forgive me for that, I had no intention of calling you a 'name'. The term describes the issue is all, Hoplophope is not a derogatory word. I have no wish to ever insult anyone that chooses not to prepare for risks like I do, thats un American. To each his own I say.

""What about the statistics that say how many people are injured or killed with a weapon by somebody they know ..i.e.accident ..how would those be tweaked""

What stats excatly? The ones that refer to "Clild" as 0-21 years old? And that don't exclude people that are on mood elevator drugs? Or that include deaths happening while doing other crimes? Like I said, Statistics can be skewed and manipulated, don't believe them bindly . More people die from med mal than guns. More kids are harmed by swimming pools than guns for any period assessed.

Once again. Me thinks thou protest too much to my comments, they were not directed at you.

Best
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