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Old 02-14-2014, 11:39 AM   #43
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Maybe a buyer should, when presented an admin fee, inspection fee, porter fee...whatever fee, is present his/her list of fees....starting with a search fee, followed by a commitment fee, ending with a signers fee......see how that works for the dealer. I know its ridiculous but the look on the face on the salesman....well that would be ..priceless.....
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:00 PM   #44
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When I was looking to buy a new "Toad" (under $20K) I ran into the Document Fee, new car "Detail", and dealer trim charges. The dealer trim amounted to pin stripes, pin stripe end extensions, cheap looking 3m door edge and wheel well guards, this ranged from $400 to $1700 depending on the dealership.

I walked on 2 deals, then decided to take another angle of attack. Armed with some knowledge of dealer costs I approached it with "give me your best out the door total price including sales tax, plates and title". I also stipulated "new cars don't need detailed and I don't want pin stripes or trim items added" so find me one in inventory that don't have those item added.

BTW, it really helps to not be trading a vehicle.
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:06 PM   #45
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I have a real problem with this. When talking over a new purchase, I asked for the total out the door price. I should note that I didn't haggle on the price, just accepted the discount the dealer quoted me. So she starts pointing out the "extra" charges, $400 for the plate, 15 for the title, of course the sales tax, then the dreaded "document fee" of $400. I told her I don't pay document fees. Then she got me real mad. She said "well the document fee comes from the state, we don't have control over that..."

I don't pay "document fees", Doing the paperwork is part of the cost of doing business. I have bought a lot of cars, trucks and motorcycles in the last 20 plus years and I have never paid a "document fee"

Walt
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Good for you!...a business can only take advantage if you if you let them!

Like you, I have no problem paying the "extra" fees for the plate, the title, and the sales tax.
However, my opinion of the recently allowed document fee is the same as yours..... allowed doesn't mean mandatory!

When it came time to pay for my used '07 Saturn ION toad I found that the Chevy dealer had added a $100 "document fee" to the agreed upon price.
I refused to pay the "extra".
To keep me from walking away from the deal, they dropped the sales price by $100.... AND they had to re-type the sales papers, (aka: do even more "document" work).

BTW, it was apparent that they weren't happy about it!

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Old 02-14-2014, 03:55 PM   #46
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I'm not sure when these practices became "standard", but I can't remember the last vehicle I bought where the dealer didn't try to add something after a price was agreed to (and I don't count tax & title, legitimate charges). Prep fee, document fee, transportation fee... If not before, all backed off when I got up to leave.
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Old 02-14-2014, 04:29 PM   #47
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Yes, the dealer has ya on the hook because they know your chomping at the bit to drive your new baby away. So what's a few $$$ going to matter. Most customers don't care..Their at the mercy of the deal because they were able to be financed in the first place. But some of us stand up to being jerked around. Especially in "cash" deals.
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Old 02-14-2014, 06:12 PM   #48
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Walt, Sir! I tip my hat to you sir. I've worked at serveral different dealerships and "Doc Fees" are a Total ripoff. They have stroked me in the pass, and the easy way around it is to deduct the same amount off the main price after you have settled on a price and don't budge till its done or walk, just like Walt did, If they want the sale bad enough, they'll drop it off the P.O. and be done with it! Once gain Sir, Good for you!
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Old 02-14-2014, 06:57 PM   #49
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Well,
Hate to go against the consensus but 400.00 on a 400,000.00 RV does not seem too unreasonable, what is that a 10th of a percent of the total. To walk away and start all over buying a new RV elsewhere for 400.00 seems crazy !

But I also don't have 400,000.00 to buy an RV

Maybe I don't have 400k for an RV cause I would have just paid it and gone on to enjoying my new rig. Instead of ruining my day and all the other people you had calling offering to take 500.00 off

Anyway my 2 cents

Hope you ended up getting something you are happy with. And hopefully you don't have any problems they may have a bitter taste in their mouths
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Old 02-14-2014, 08:44 PM   #50
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I talked to another dealer on a rv today. On the phone, I asked if they charged a Doc fee. He told me that they do, but there were ways around that (meaning, I assume, he could knock $200 off the price but leave the doc fee on.) Rather then the BS that the State Required it, he was honest and said that they have sold thousands of RVs with the doc fee included. If he didn't put a doc fee on my sale, some lawyer type could sue him on behalf of all the others that were charged the fee. OK, that is something I can identify with. Then I asked if there were any other fees I should know about, and he said "yes", there was a set up fee. $425! For this they filled the propane, charged the batteries, and cleaned to RV inside and out.

He told me in advance, I don't like it, but at least its not an add on at the end that I wasn't told about. He is all the way over in Grand Rapids ( which is the other side of the state.) so I will have to check before I go out if he can do what I want over the phone. So I guess I might end up paying a doc fee, that really isn't a doc fee, after all... Maybe

Walt
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:44 AM   #51
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Out the door, is out the door, is out the door. Got mandatory fees/add ons/taxes/title/plates, etc...fine, but add 'em in...it's the out the door price.
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:05 PM   #52
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Geez, you'd think in 2014 we wouldn't have to put up with all this BS from dealers. They're still selling vehicles the way they did 70 years ago. I think it's time for a change. Why can't the manufacturers sell these things direct, one price for the base model, +options. Why does it have to be so frickin complicated and sleazy?
Every time I leave a dealer's lot I have a vague pain in my backside. The only good experience I've ever had was at CarMax, but they don't sell RVs.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:22 AM   #53
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... We call it a cash deal but we actually mean a check....But there was a member hear I know who negotiated a "cash" deal on a new MH. When he came in for delivery and opened up a briefcase full money the dealer didn't know what to do... What my $$$ no good...
Stick with a check in "cash" transactions. These days, any cash purchase of $10,000 or more is automatically reported to the government as part of the country's anti-money laundering initiative. And probably investigated, too. So, really, no laughing matter. You might be surprised to learn that your name was checked against a Treasury Department list once you made an offer (or even before), regardless of how you paid for your coach. If you're on it, the dealer isn't allowed to sell to you. Again, all part of the AML initiative.
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:43 PM   #54
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Stick with a check in "cash" transactions. These days, any cash purchase of $10,000 or more is automatically reported to the government as part of the country's anti-money laundering initiative. And probably investigated, too. So, really, no laughing matter. You might be surprised to learn that your name was checked against a Treasury Department list once you made an offer (or even before), regardless of how you paid for your coach. If you're on it, the dealer isn't allowed to sell to you. Again, all part of the AML initiative.
Any cash transaction, in excess of 10,000, that you do at a bank has been "reportable" for decades. I worked at a large, national bank in the 80's and it was a requirement to process a CTR (Currency Transaction Report) when anyone made a cash deposit or withdrawl of $10,000 or more.

What people generally don't know is the CTR can be done at any amount at the discrection of the bank. So coming in with cash deposits of $9,900 can also trigger it - as can making deposits at multiple branches in a single day that exceed $10,000 in total.
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:57 PM   #55
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Any cash transaction, in excess of 10,000, that you do at a bank has been "reportable" for decades. I worked at a large, national bank in the 80's and it was a requirement to process a CTR (Currency Transaction Report) when anyone made a cash deposit or withdrawl of $10,000 or more.

What people generally don't know is the CTR can be done at any amount at the discrection of the bank. So coming in with cash deposits of $9,900 can also trigger it - as can making deposits at multiple branches in a single day that exceed $10,000 in total.
This statement is true to the letter. I retired from banking and any suspicious deposits of ANY AMOUNT can be reported. BTW, banks have charged Doc Prep Fees for years. But, the fee must be reported on a Truth in Lending Statement at the time of loan application. Then.....many lending officers got jobs as financing mgrs at dealerships. Of course, they brought along the Doc Prep Fee with them which made the ownership very happy. But, unlike banking, when a customer is negotiating the purchase there is no TIL or Good Faith Estimate required as in banking. So the customer goes all the way to closing to find the additional fees. If dealer financing was as heavily monitored as lenders, this would never be an issue.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:40 AM   #56
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