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Old 09-24-2014, 01:22 PM   #29
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John, following a slow moving vehicle on a winding downhill road is not a legal reason to cross the yellow line and jeopardize all the oncoming traffic as well as the now downhill traffic if a head on collision occurs(all over a few people maybe taking 5-10 more minutes getting to the bottom)...You should always try to go for the more serious violation. In my 30 years+ in Law Enforcement I have had to pull more than a few dead or mangled people, kids included out of cars because someone couldn't wait and passed when it was dangerous or not allowed or something else stupid, and it's not fun.By pulling over the MH hecould have made a bigger problem, he should have at least waited until the end of the downgrade.

Could the OP have turned out, maybe, but If I read it right he wasn't sure he could do it safely and was only 7 mph below the speed limit. All I am saying in the "spirit of the law" it could have been handled better. There were bigger fish to catch.You wouldn't believe how many complaints I've handled where the Officer stopping somone(with every legal right) actually made the situation worse. And we didn't punish them just had a conversation about common sense and better ways to safely handle things. I bet if it was a local logging truck it wouldn't have been stopped.

And I agree with 90% of this post and always try to pull over when I can, but I'm not going to make things worse, jeopardizing my safety as well as others when it is not safe to do so just so somebody in a car can HA down a winding mountain road. I would bet if he had of stopped one of the cars passing illegally, all the others would have stopped doing it, thus eliminating getting rid of the obstruction theory as being the best solution. The obstruction was temporary and to be somewhat expected driving mountain roads. A headon collisionfrom someone who can't wait a few minutes can be life changing or life ending experience.
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Old 09-24-2014, 01:23 PM   #30
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JFXG: I don't think the OP meant to correct a spelling error, he was stating that's how the ticket was spelled out or to phrase it differently, "that's how the ticket was written".

RE: The Mountain Directory - we are in the western mountains all the time and love driving those roads. We know what our capabilities are and to us, 6-7% is no big deal and yes, we've driven the road in question here. We've also driven Hwy 550 Red Mountain Pass (Million Dollar Hwy) between Silverton and Ouray, CO many times and that's another road that folks say to stay off. However, we're comfortable driving it and yes, we stay in our lane on turns.

The ticket was for obstruction and having 5 cars behind is just that. When that happens people behind you get agitated and start passing. The ranger was correct in trying to stop the problem. He couldn't stop all 5 vehicles to ticket them, unfortunately, but iinstead he stopped the offender. Not 100% right but that's how I read this.

We have driven in other states with the same rule and not just on mountain roads but on flat roads. It's just common sense to pull over and let other pass. Besides we just don't like cars following us that close knowing they are itching to pass.

Many times on a lonely secondary road if just one car is behind us we'll pull over just so we can enjoy the surroundings at our leisure.

I think by the OP's post we have all learned something here and it's also a good thing to go over the state rules before driving in them.
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Old 09-24-2014, 06:04 PM   #31
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As I have said it was an easy drive with my coach and my driving experience, and would do it again.
I, too, have driven on roads such as these, some by choice and some by chance. IMO any road difficult enough that you have to drive 20% below the speed limit for an extended period of time is not an "easy drive". I don't fault you for driving at a sensible speed but I don't enjoy impeding the flow of traffic or feeling like there are people on my tail trying to pass. I have a CDL and feel quite comfortable driving my MH almost anywhere. However, just because I can doesn't mean I wish to do so. You are entitled to drive your MH anywhere you wish, but if I come up behind you in my toad I'm going to expect you to pull over whenever the opportunity presents itself. If you don't then I would expect the police to enforce the law.
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Old 09-24-2014, 06:08 PM   #32
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Perhaps it should have read "impeding traffic" flow.
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:24 PM   #33
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IMO any road difficult enough that you have to drive 20% below the speed limit for an extended period of time is not an "easy drive". I don't fault you for driving at a sensible speed but I don't enjoy impeding the flow of traffic or feeling like there are people on my tail trying to pass.
It may not be the roads you'll know. It could be the right hand seat occupant saying "slow down you are driving too fast" all the time.
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Old 09-24-2014, 09:55 PM   #34
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Totally agree with JFXG. The Ranger had to make a judgment call, and IMHO it was the correct one. Once the OP was lit up he had no problem finding a suitable turn out, which leads me to believe the Ranger probably noticed previous opportunities where the OP could have pulled over and didn't.
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Old 09-25-2014, 04:57 AM   #35
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Well, got a written WARNING NOTICE from the National Park Ranger. We were at Alpine Visitor Center (11796 ft) in the Rocky Mountains. We just left the visitor center on our descent down the mountain, a 6% grade for 9 miles. We have a coach that weighs right around 49590 lbs.
I was driving 27 mph down the mountain posted speed limit is 35 mph. We were about 1 or 2 miles down the mountain. With 15 and 20 mph hairpin curves. Yes, I did pass some pullouts that I might have fit in and should have stooped. We are about 58' long.
Hwy 34 was very busy with traffic going down too. After four cars passed me on a double yellow line and the Park Ranger (fourth car behind me), flipping his light on and off when the cars passed me. At the next pullout where I could safely pull over, I did and so did the Park Ranger with all his lights on. Well, to make a long story short, he wrote me up with a written warning, for “Operating too slowly/obstructing” (exactly as spelled on ticket). He also got my name & DOB wrong on the warning notice.
The way the law was explained to me (by the officer's supervisor), that any time that there are 5 or more vehicles following me I (by law ) have to stop at the first safe pullout and let all traffic by me (descending) or drive the posted speed.

No I'm NOT telling anybody how to drive there rig!

I'm just telling what happened to me, a lesson learned for me..
Please take this further. That officer and his supervisor shouldn't be drawing a government check- except unemployment. If you're registered in the same party as one of your federal representatives start there.

You said you "did pass some pullouts that I might have fit in". OK, but you took the first one into which you were sure you would safely fit. You fulfilled any legal requirement- especially given the lower speeds posted on warning signs.

Whatever happens, please remember this situation if you're ever called for jury duty. The LEO's under oath are probably the same sort as your Barney. It is easiest for them to target ther innocent than pursue the guilty. In this case the "guilty" passed on a double yellow.

Before someone accuses, I've never been arrested much less charged. I have had two tickets in my 60 years. One a parking ticket in Worms, West Germany in 1976 and the other a 2 miles over ticket 15 or 20 years ago. I do thank you for providing names for my ignore list. Otherwise, I might have seriously considered advice from some of these.

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Old 09-25-2014, 09:30 AM   #36
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I have thought about this thread and in doing so have come to a different opinion.

IMO we are talking about a couple of things here. The "Letter of the Law" and the "Spirit and Intent of the Law".

I think the officer did the correct thing when wrote the warning ticket. A verbal warning was probably warranted however a written ticket documents the fact the OP is aware of the law and could be given a ticket for future similar offences. This is the "Intent of the Law". The fact the officer wrote the name and address incorrectly on the ticket invalidates the issue. So in the "Spirit and Intent of the Law" he also did the correct thing in providing information to the OP as well as invalidating any future consequences from the written ticket.

I am not aware of the intracies of the section of roadway in question and the size of the turnouts that were passed. The OP did say he passed pullouts he might have fit in and drove past. At a length of 58' I would imagine that he should have fit in them all and driving at 27 mph should have been able to pull into any of them if they was advance warning of the pullout.

I want to thank the OP in the "Spirit and Intent of the Law" for this thread. In posting the issue he has provided valuable information for me.

I have one question and that would be "Does the law apply when I am driving at or near the speed limit?".
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Old 09-25-2014, 09:40 AM   #37
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I have one question and that would be "Does the law apply when I am driving at or near the speed limit?".
YES. It's not how fast you are traveling it is whether you have 5 or more cars stacked behind your vehicle; you are required to use a pull-out to let them pass.

Also, in some states they will have a sign posted well ahead of a turn-out. It will generally say "Turn-Out Ahead - 1000 feet".

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Old 09-25-2014, 09:52 AM   #38
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I once asked a Trooper friend why nobody hassled slow drivers on the Thruway. His response was that no Judge would uphold the ticket if the driver cited safety concerns about going faster. That leaves me wondering if the Ranger ever drove a big rig of any kind. One has to make a lot of calls differently there than in a 4 wheeler.
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Old 09-25-2014, 09:59 AM   #39
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So the man gave you a written warning for an obvious violation and you get upset and want to beef him about it with his supervisor? Wanted to get the guy in trouble or what? He gave you some much needed advice, no ticket but instead of thanking him, you . . . Never mind, you will not understand.
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Old 09-25-2014, 11:12 AM   #40
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Seems an over reach.

I just about ran over a guy on a motorcycle a few months ago on I-75. He pulled in front of me at highway speed and came to an abrupt near stop. I came within just a foot or two of hitting him. Had I not been paying close attention I would have run him right over and killed him. By law I would have been at fault, maybe?

We have young county police officers that over reach regularly.

Know your rights.

This discussion seems to have turned into the leos vs the citizens.


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Old 09-25-2014, 11:13 AM   #41
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I try to avoid roads that require me to drive under the posted limit, especially mountain passes. Sometimes they cannot be avoided, so I pull over more often than I legally need to, that's my responsibility for driving below the speed limit. I do not think it is the responsibility of other car drivers to know how my rig operates and its limitations. If I've got cars behind me that are passing me on a double yellow there's is obviously some frustration going on. I can't change their poor decisions, but I can avoid the situation by pulling over more often than waiting for five cars to back up.
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Old 09-25-2014, 11:49 AM   #42
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I just about ran over a guy on a motorcycle a few months ago on I-75. He pulled in front of me at highway speed and came to an abrupt near stop. I came within just a foot or two of hitting him. Had I not been paying close attention I would have run him right over and killed him. By law I would have been at fault, maybe?

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