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Old 09-06-2017, 11:24 PM   #533
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No, the analogy to ships is appropriate, because they all used to be straight diesel power, and are switching. Trains used hybrid technology because no mechanical transmission existed up to the task.

Added cost ? Not important for the discussion....here's why..... RV's add features and cost all the time. There will always be RV's at a range of prices that people can afford. Cars have steadily climbed in price as they add features and technology. I never said ALL RV's will be hybrid or electric.....just that they will be available.
What you are missing is the advent of solid state motor controls. They allowed ships to place the diesels in the best place then put the drive motors in the best place instead of having all positions dictated by mechanical alignment issues. It also provides for things like bow thrusters to help control the boat. Those are significant issues for the marine design industry.

You also miss that both boats and trains can handle a lot more weight efficiently compared to highway vehicles.

Cost is a joke as you will still need a diesel that will drive the electric motor to do highway speeds once the battery runs out plus the battery plus the motor and generator. No matter how much things improve that is a significant cost over just having an engine and transmission.

Then there is the whole subsidy issue...
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:36 AM   #534
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This thread is somewhat long so forgive me if this has already been said. The forthcoming Nikola One would be an awesome platform for an RV.

https://nikolamotor.com/one

800 to a 1,000 mile range
1,000 Hp
All electric.

I spent a fair amount of time reading up on this truck when I first heard about it. The chassis would be fairly easy for a Coach builder to adapt.
This truck, and the inclusion of a fuel cell to charge the batteries instead of a generator, is the first I have seen in over 500 posts to offer validity to the concept of this thread.

If the fuel cell technology is employed to support the electric system that has too short a range, then the range can be improved without compromising the system so much that simple mechanical was better.

In other words, getting more power into the batteries fast enough on the fly, while driving, and while recharging, has always been the problem. If you use a generator, then the motor on that generator has to be so large that you mitigate the value of being electric. If you can produce a fuel cell large enough to replace the large generator, and it works well, then you can go full electric in a competitive manner to current mechanical internal combustion engine power plants...

That leaves only the cost factor. That will come down with multiple units, and demand. I believe the cost factor is easier overcome than the mechanical power factors.



edit:

I see that people are posting that Elon Musk does not agree that fuel cell technology will be a factor in electric vehicles. He may be right, but also, he has decided to go a different direction, so if this vehicle with fuel cell technology to recharge the batteries comes to reality, it will be a direct economic competitor to his car company. So, while he does not see it as valid (and he is a smarter engineer than I) and he may be right for that reason, he is also heavily invested in other technologies that make his public statements on the topic subjective, rather than objective.
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:44 AM   #535
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The first time I ran into fuel cell serious research was in the mid 90's. It was one of the GM efforts. I have been sort of following their efforts since. So far no joy. If they do get it working then the fuel stations may or may not be an issue the same way it is for the super battery stations. It depends on whether they need hydrogen or natural gas as a fuel. If it's hydrogen it will probably come from redesigned refineries cracking petroleum for hydrogen instead of gasoline/fuel oil.
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:51 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by Discal View Post
This thread is somewhat long so forgive me if this has already been said. The forthcoming Nikola One would be an awesome platform for an RV.

https://nikolamotor.com/one

800 to a 1,000 mile range
1,000 Hp
All electric.

I spent a fair amount of time reading up on this truck when I first heard about it. The chassis would be fairly easy for a Coach builder to adapt.
Elon Musk disagrees : https://youtu.be/j74bU_2XZIE?t=10m28s

Let me know when you see an electric or fuel cell semi on the road and not as just marketing material. As of right now the technology means less range higher cost and less carry capacity.
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Old 09-09-2017, 02:28 PM   #537
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Yes. The service needs are drastically different.

A school bus runs for an hour or two and then sits for long rests. Plenty of time to charge.

Not so if your heading your RV out for a multi- thousand mile trip.
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Old 09-09-2017, 02:58 PM   #538
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Yes. The service needs are drastically different.

A school bus runs for an hour or two and then sits for long rests. Plenty of time to charge.

Not so if your heading your RV out for a multi- thousand mile trip.


Well, I've heard from many folks that never travel more than 200 miles in a day, and always stay a minimum of 2 days at each stop. The RV could recharge while hooked to 50 amp service at the campground.

If your lifestyle doesn't fit that, then don't buy it.....there has NEVER been a "one size fits all" type of RV !
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Old 09-09-2017, 05:22 PM   #539
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Not only is there no 'one size fits all RV' but there are also some people who will spend more money and get less RV, if that RV has some hook that they like, such as being electric.

I just think that the amount of people who will spend more for an RV that does less or goes less, because it is electric, is a small pool of people, and they are likely too small a group that any manufacturer will build for.

Eventually, that group will be larger, because technology will make the more they have to spend smaller, and the does less, or goes less will also be smaller, and then all electric RVs may come to be.

I am not in that small group now, and will likely not be in that group for some time to come.
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Old 09-10-2017, 06:38 AM   #540
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Few folks will ever be in that group. Money talks for most of us. Ditto the 200 miles then sit 3 days. Nice but then we have a weather issue and need 600 miles to get out of town.
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Old 09-10-2017, 08:43 AM   #541
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As time goes on the price will go down as well as the subsidies. The promotors will move on to the next craze while folks who have invested in the "current technology" will lick their wounds and hope they make their money back on their next investment.

I would truly like an honest evaluation of whole of life carbon costs for the miracle solutions.

And life will continue.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:48 AM   #542
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:51 PM   #543
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I still think the first Electric RV will be something like a 22 foot travel van type unit. Probably using a Mercedes delivery truck as a base and maybe a 200 KWH battery. That'll push it 500 KM (300 ish miles). Overnight in a campground with 50 amp service or a couple hours or so at a fast charger. Might be alright for some of us. We don't usually do more than 300 or 400 km a day when touring. Once batteries are cheaper it would save a lot of money on fuel and maintenance. (depending on what the campground charged for the power of course)
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:52 AM   #544
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Someone will undoubtedly modify something like that. The issue is whether anyone will do a commercially viable run of more than a couple of demonstration units. I have to wonder about that.

That also assumes someone with a "green" 22 ft unit would be looking at or welcome at places with 50 Amp service. I'm not sure that would be the target audience of move every 3 days. Most of those folks are driving big rigs and exploring in their toads.

I see the 22 ft rig as something for the hiker/nature folks. Most of the state parks around here have nothing or 30 Amp. One might be several days on site to charge the batteries plus get enough power for daily living. Worse if one wants to go toadless and do some area exploring with the MH. Maybe some bicycles as exploration vehicles. That gets one into the real lifestyler crowd but they often are also the one's who want to do Disney on Spring Break...
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:38 AM   #545
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Someone will undoubtedly modify something like that. The issue is whether anyone will do a commercially viable run of more than a couple of demonstration units. I have to wonder about that.

That also assumes someone with a "green" 22 ft unit would be looking at or welcome at places with 50 Amp service. I'm not sure that would be the target audience of move every 3 days. Most of those folks are driving big rigs and exploring in their toads.

I see the 22 ft rig as something for the hiker/nature folks. Most of the state parks around here have nothing or 30 Amp. One might be several days on site to charge the batteries plus get enough power for daily living. Worse if one wants to go toadless and do some area exploring with the MH. Maybe some bicycles as exploration vehicles. That gets one into the real lifestyler crowd but they often are also the one's who want to do Disney on Spring Break...
I suppose but one could always just go to a DCFC site. Even a clunky old 50 kw station would get you charged up in 3 or 4 hours and if it was a newer unit probably half that. The other thing is although we are still charge network challenged on this side of the pond in Europe where smaller motorhome are super common the DCFC charge network is much more developed and growing much faster. Anyway. I would think in 5 to 7 years someone will be making small full electric motorhomes. Right now a small mercedes diesel chassis motorhome is crazy expensive. I would suspect a Tesla driveline with 200 KWh battery wouldn't be that much more. A brand new Tesla 3 with 75ish sized battery is mid 40's. Even if it was a 100 grand for the chassis complete it would be feasible. No idea though.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:37 AM   #546
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Just curious about the target audience. Most of the short travel people I know are retired, many are full time. While they travel short distances they also have larger units. They have the larger units for several reasons, one being storage.

The other group seems to be working people who like to travel longer distances in short times to get to their destination and then stay put until they have to return home.

Both problems have to be addressed in order for all electric to be successful.

Read somewhere that if 10% of the cars in LA were converted to electric the grid would have to be doubled. Seems a stretch but they are already suffering brown outs.
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