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Old 08-09-2015, 09:21 PM   #71
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There is no oxygen sensors after the catalytic converter on 2001 E450 based Motorhome. So the ECM (engine control module) cannot detect if there a cat or not.
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Old 08-09-2015, 09:44 PM   #72
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How can I prove that the dealer removed the cat converter. He told me he had removed a rusted pipe and welded a new pipe. The newly welded pipe is at the location of where the cat converter used to be. What if he said that there was no cat converter when he took possession of the RV?
I am a master tech for over 30 years,IT IS ILLEGAL TO SELL A NEW OR USED VEHICLE WITH DEFECTIVE/MISSING EMISSION PARTS PERIOD,i agree either have it fixed and present the dealer with the bill or have them fix it but dont pay a dollar.You have him by the short hair.Dont be afraid of confrontation,there is no need for confrontation.Stay cool calm and collected,state your case and if they get ridiculous walk away and get a lawyer he wont let you leave.It dosnt matter if they or the previous owner did the mods its up to the dealer to fix those problems BEFORE they sell it.If they go to court they will be fined and possibly loose their license.
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Old 08-09-2015, 09:59 PM   #73
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In Tennessee when you buy or sell a used vehicle you must have the vehicle inspected... in Tennessee they go up under the vehicle with a mirror to make sure it was there.. If I'm reading this right, the Cat was gone and or modified.. I'd check to see if the vehicle was inspected before you purchased it... In Tennessee I don't think we can even register it with out a clean emssisinos test prior to a final sale! If that's the case the dealer probably knows it and is playing chicken... I'd hold his feet to the fire for 100% _+ expenses you have incurred... for him, it's part of diong business.
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Old 08-09-2015, 10:16 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by WRENCH18 View Post
I am a master tech for over 30 years,IT IS ILLEGAL TO SELL A NEW OR USED VEHICLE WITH DEFECTIVE/MISSING EMISSION PARTS PERIOD,i agree either have it fixed and present the dealer with the bill or have them fix it but dont pay a dollar.You have him by the short hair.Dont be afraid of confrontation,there is no need for confrontation.Stay cool calm and collected,state your case and if they get ridiculous walk away and get a lawyer he wont let you leave.It dosnt matter if they or the previous owner did the mods its up to the dealer to fix those problems BEFORE they sell it.If they go to court they will be fined and possibly loose their license.
Exactly. The dealer could be in deep, expensive trouble for what he has done. I know you are in the process of getting the engine replaced with a reman unit. What if anything is planned about replacing the cat? Emissions regulations are federally governed and enforced, not state level.
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Old 08-10-2015, 06:56 AM   #75
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As stated by Wrench18, and as I stated in my last post, it doesn't matter whether the dealer had the Cat removed, or whether it was removed by little green fairies, if he sold a vehicle who's emissions system had been visibly tampered with, HE IS RESPONSIBLE! I am not, and others here probably are not attorneys, that's why several people have suggested you write a nice letter to the dealer explaining the situation, and if he does not agree to cover ALL the costs of repair to bring the vehicle back into SAFE, LEGAL, and USABLE standards, THEN consider speaking to an attorney. Not sure why people have such a big problem with members giving advice. Most, but not all granted, advice given here was a result of posters having previous personal (sometimes EXPENSIVE) experience with similar situations. My advice DOES come from personal experience, experience where I successfully and concisely stated the facts as I see them, in writing, to a business, sometimes requiring the involvement of either a hired attorney, or the respective State Attorney General's Office, with successful results for me. The OP asked for advice, MUCH GOOD advice has been suggested to him here, MOST of it along the same theme. That theme doesn't require being argumentative, or trying to con the dealer out of something. That theme is basically, "Make the Dealer uphold his LEGAL responsibilities to the Buyer" Those responsibilities are codified in Federal and State EPA regulations, as well as regulations which govern his Business License to be an Automobile/RV Dealer selling vehicles/RV's to the public. That what separates (or should separate) him from Shade Tree Mechanics and Shyster Mechanics selling junk on Craigslist.
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Old 08-10-2015, 07:01 AM   #76
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I am convinced about pushing the issue for the cat converter. I will send a text message to the RV dealer about and update the thread. Hopefully, my story will be helpful to others that would in this situation.
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Old 08-10-2015, 07:03 AM   #77
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Call the State Attorney Generals office where you purchased the coach. Ask for Consumer Affairs Division or Licensure Division. You may be pleasantly surprised the assistance they will render.
Hoping this works out for you.
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Old 08-11-2015, 07:39 AM   #78
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Call the State Attorney Generals office where you purchased the coach. Ask for Consumer Affairs Division or Licensure Division. You may be pleasantly surprised the assistance they will render.
Hoping this works out for you.
Ditto on this suggestion. All it will cost you is a phone call. They may suggest opening a case with them. They CC their office in ALL correspondence with the dealer. That's another point. I would use e-mail, NOT Texts for all correspondence. E-mail holds more weight in a dispute than text messages do, as it requires a password on the part of the received to view. Just what some of the legal forums suggest, also allows you to cc other parties. Call the Attorney General's office, see what they suggest. Odds are you will get the advice you need already pre-paid (with your taxes) versus having to go through private attorney. The Cat issues is your ace in the hole.
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Old 08-16-2015, 11:53 AM   #79
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Here in Arizona there is an automatic 30 day warranty on the drivetrain of a used vehicle sold by a dealer. I did it use it one time.
You might want to check and see if your state has something similar.
Being a Shop Foreman for the City of Phoenix for 18 years I would not have paid for anything more than the fluids to go back in the engine or items like motor mounts if they needed to be replaced.
Since this motorhome sat for awhile I would also pay to either replace or clean the radiator and replace the hoses. Many engine warranties require this so check it out with the engine you bought.
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Old 08-16-2015, 12:56 PM   #80
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leadman,

Sorry for being a little suspicious but I was really surprised by your response:

Here in Arizona there is an automatic 30 day warranty on the drivetrain of a used vehicle sold by a dealer. I did it use it one time.

Can you get me the actual verbage of this from Az govt. law?
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Old 08-17-2015, 07:59 AM   #81
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44-1267

I was off on the time length, it is 15 days or 500 miles, whichever comes first. Been about 10 years ago that I used it. It does include more than just the drivetrain also.
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Old 08-17-2015, 09:20 AM   #82
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Thanks- I was never aware of this.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:07 AM   #83
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44-1267

I was off on the time length, it is 15 days or 500 miles, whichever comes first. Been about 10 years ago that I used it. It does include more than just the drivetrain also.
That is a great provision.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:33 AM   #84
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I'm curious.....As of today what money has the dealer reimbursed you? And how much have you put out for repairs?
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