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Old 08-17-2015, 11:05 AM   #85
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As an ex-owner if a franchise exhaust shop, I can knowledgeably say the missing CAT is your ace. The trouble/expense it can cause the dealer is major. A competitor of mine lost one of his franchise shops, and nearly all, when he was caught installing a "test pipe" in place of bad converters. Handled politely, that dealer if smart will pay whatever is required to get you repaired and down the road. The farther this problem goes up the food chain, the harder he will be bitten.
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Old 08-18-2015, 07:48 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Mike_Harriet View Post
As an ex-owner if a franchise exhaust shop, I can knowledgeably say the missing CAT is your ace. The trouble/expense it can cause the dealer is major. A competitor of mine lost one of his franchise shops, and nearly all, when he was caught installing a "test pipe" in place of bad converters. Handled politely, that dealer if smart will pay whatever is required to get you repaired and down the road. The farther this problem goes up the food chain, the harder he will be bitten.
Yup, that's my take as well. He REALLY doesn't want it to get into a furball when the CAT comes out! (no pun intended!)
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Old 08-18-2015, 08:48 AM   #87
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OK, lots has been said about what to do and what not to do so I will not go there. I am curious where in Ohio are you stranded?
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Old 08-18-2015, 09:51 PM   #88
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i picked up the RV yesterday from the Ford dealer in Mentor, OH near cleveland. i paid $4675 on top of the $3000 remanufactured engine i ended up providing myself. the RV dealer is going to reimburse me $3000 for the engine replacement +$300 for buying a catalytic converter.
he denied having remove the catalytic converter. it is a repossessed RV and he said anything could have happen to it. i guess it would be impossible to prove he did it, even if he told me when I saw it the first time that they welded a new exhaust pipe to replace one that had rusted out.
As the RV dealer didn't initially respond to my request about the catalytic converter, i had first called the the office of the attorney general in Missouri. they told me that they cannot give legal advice and asked if I wanted to file a complaint, which I declined.
I also called a lawyer in st louis, apparently the only that stated explicit experience with car dealer. he told me that i have probably a case as the RV dealer told me that the RV was in good condition and that I wouldn't have any problem with it. He was proposing to file a lawsuit and ask for the full cost of the engine replacement plus attorneys fees, which could be in the tens of thousand of dollars. if he we win the attorney will get half of the money and we would get the other half. so if the total engine cost replacement was $10k and attorney fees $30k we would get $20k at the end. if we don't win, we don't pay anything to the attorney. the process would last between six months and two years and require at least two travels for us. ( we live 150 miles away). the start the process i had to send the lawyer, the original sale contract and a description of what hapened. the lawyer would the decide wether he would take the case or not. i had told the lawyer that I didn't think that i signed a document stating the 30 days warranty.
I then sent another text message to the RV dealer explaining as I just did here my phone conversation with the lawyer. I also stated I would be satisfied with the $3000 he agreed so far plus $500 for the catalytic converter. after a bit of negotiation we agreed on $300 for the catalytic converter.
he is going to send me a "release form" and then the $3300.
to conclude, this was a bad experience but I now have a new engine and can start enjoying my RV. i prefer to forget and move on than dragging this for up to 2 years. i also don't think it would be fair for the RV dealer to pay $40k. he did propose to fix it at no cost at his place or to replace it with another more expensive unit. I declined as we really prefer the one we had and couldn't get it tow to his place as we were hoping to get it fixed quickly enough to enjoy some of our vacation. in the end he is paying what probably would have cost him if he had done the job himself. I also preferred that we had the job done at the Ford dealership as they properly diagnose the high fuel pressure and the rusted fuel tank and fixed everything correctly, which I don't think the RV dealer would have done.
the only thing I would do differently next time is to have the RV inspected before buying it, or at least make sure i have a written warranty and have it inspected before our first trip.
thanks to all who contributed to this thread. it helped me in a difficult time and gave me some valuable arguments when negotiating with the RV dealer. i also hope other people will learn from my experience.
i want now to focus on more fun stuff like engine oil, transmission fluid and brake fluid change, update the 12v electric system to add new 12v plugs ... but that will be for other threads.
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Old 08-18-2015, 10:51 PM   #89
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Good for you. I'm glad it worked out to your satisfaction. Its a tough one to swallow, but you have a great attitude about it and will undoubtedly enjoy your new motorhome and your travels in it. Fwiw, I think you did the right thing by having it repaired at a Ford dealer, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I would have tried to do the same.
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Old 08-18-2015, 11:05 PM   #90
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As long as it works out to your satisfaction, thats all that counts. Civil litigation is a very frustrating and time consuming ordeal. I am currently a plaintiff in a case and it will be over two years from filing before we see the inside of the courtroom. Its irritating, but I have great lawyers and they assure me that I'll be happy in the end. I just have to trust them.

Best of luck to you and Safe Journeys ahead!
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Old 08-19-2015, 08:56 AM   #91
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Dealer stating it was repossessed does NOT IN ANY WAY release him from blame as he is selling the unit as a licensed dealer and as such may be required to sell unit as "street legal".

You are complete now but at a huge cost.

If the dealer would have covered "all cost" if towed back to their facility then he should cover that cost in your case.

Meaning whatever his cost "true cost" to do the job to ford specifications would have been then he can provide that amount if more than he has provided.

Granted if he has service bay his cost is smaller as he is paying 20 bucks hr and you paid much more and he gets better cut on parts but the general idea here is he violated major rules selling a bad unit that you paid a major part of bringing up to standard.

The Ford dealer could work with the rv dealer to recover some cost on your behalf as well if you ask.

They do this with manufacturers often so they know the process, costs nothing to ask.
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Old 08-19-2015, 09:04 AM   #92
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this was a bad experience but I now have a new engine and can start enjoying my RV.
IMHO that's the best thing you can do. Once you're set up in a nice campsite with a great view, a beer in your hand and the grill going this will all fade away. Many happy miles to you.
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Old 08-20-2015, 12:43 AM   #93
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Enjoy your new rig and have some fun
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Old 08-20-2015, 03:02 AM   #94
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Follow the break in procedures for the rebuild and I hope it is a factory CAT converter (low mileage used is fine)....

enjoy...
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Old 08-20-2015, 05:33 AM   #95
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Good for you. I'm glad it worked out to your satisfaction. Its a tough one to swallow, but you have a great attitude about it and will undoubtedly enjoy your new motorhome and your travels in it. Fwiw, I think you did the right thing by having it repaired at a Ford dealer, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I would have tried to do the same.
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:13 PM   #96
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How can I prove that the dealer removed the cat converter. He told me he had removed a rusted pipe and welded a new pipe. The newly welded pipe is at the location of where the cat converter used to be. What if he said that there was no cat converter when he took possession of the RV?
He knew because he worked on the exhaust system. He is not an idiot. He knew about or more likely did the EPA violation himself. I smell a rat...

I know your pain. Just put out about 4k on a starter and head gasket on my 99 24 valve Cummins. I am sure the previous owner knew. Price of admission with a 15 year old coach. I paid 15 year old price and that is that. I have learned some very good lessons at a relatively cheap price. I DO intend on my next coach to be much newer and more money when that time comes. I am now well armed to mitigate most risks come next purchase...

Hope this does not sour you, but be a learning experience that will pay off next time for you. 😈
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Old 08-21-2015, 02:34 PM   #97
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...to conclude, this was a bad experience but I now have a new engine and can start enjoying my RV. i prefer to forget and move on than dragging this for up to 2 years.

the only thing I would do differently next time is to have the RV inspected before buying it, or at least make sure i have a written warranty and have it inspected before our first trip.
Let the buyer beware, caveat emptor. I'd say you were lucky to get any warranty at all on a 13 year old vehicle. While not optimal, I'm glad you got it sorted out. Getting it towed 500 miles back to the original dealer or pursuing litigation was probably not worth the additional/time/money/effort.

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IMHO that's the best thing you can do. Once you're set up in a nice campsite with a great view, a beer in your hand and the grill going this will all fade away. Many happy miles to you.
^^^ Agreed. Glad it all worked out. Look at it this way, now you know you have a good engine and can relax and enjoy it.
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