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Old 09-13-2010, 11:10 AM   #29
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Cattledog, I think you read it wrong. The 7 gallon 5 gallon example was calculated straight off the Malibu mileage figures on the highway. 33 mpg vs 23 mpg. 165 miles gasoline vs 115 miles E85. Just add 2 more gallons and you will then have travelled as far as the gasoline version. This is not made up information. Just how many expeditions do you think Ford will sell at 9 MPG? That's what they get on E85. They've managed to take a Silverado and give it an MPG that I was getting in 1976! That's not good economics. I get 26 MPG with a light foot in my extended Silverado on 10% ethanol. I'm not going backwards. Which is why it is not a flex fuel truck.

BP and Dupont have production facilities set up in partnership with each other for the production of biobutanol.

The old method of producing butanol came in at $3-$4 per gallon. That's without subsidy and without the natural decrease in cost which higher production quantities will bring.

I'm pretty sure you don't think too highly of the "leaders" in DC.


By the way, those subsidy numbers you quote are NOT factual. Our cost is a lot higher than the "blenders" credit.
http://www.oregonlive.com/environmen...sis_quest.html
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:27 AM   #30
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Propane 91,000 btu/gal and you wouldn't have to ever change the oil. Just paid $1.75/gal delivered. It's a shame you can't get it everywhere for that.

Propane is great as a fuel. Super high octane numbers.

When I saw your username I laughed. Up above is the name of the racing individual AK Miller. Ak convinced me to build my 1946 Chevy with a turbocharged 300 inch Ford straight six. It could run enough boost to blow the head clean off. I could dial up the boost from the dash. It was great and zero pollution. I used to know where all the Agways were located in NY. Running out at night wasn't a good thing.
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:44 PM   #31
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Pros and Cons can be found all over the internet here's a con but a good one.

Con: Should Congress eliminate federal subsidies for ethanol? - Juneau Empire

And every one has there opinion. The reason for the subsidys write or wrong, Is to help control Opec oil. But it boils down to personal opinion (do we want to continue supporting the Opec Nations with there rape and run tactics) I choose not to. And to call those in "DC" Leaders, is a stretch. And your milage is Great in the Malibu, I'm Not sure about any other GM products and mpg, we quit buying them 1986 when the junk got junkyer. And for the Market share wonder why Ford sells 3-1 over GM, and 5-1 almost 6-1 over Chrysler. My wife get's 18mpg in her Expedition and that is saying alot, Now that is a prime example of a lead foot. Scary Real Scary.. We can't get that type of fuel mpg with ours that's why we have flex fuel trucks that burn that $1.84 E85 opposed to unleaded at $2.57 its all about choice. And I wish we could drive our trucks with a lite foot, but we can't we work ours, Everyday. Heck I even get 12.1 Pulling the 5vr... I'm so happy. Happy Camping.
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Old 09-13-2010, 01:02 PM   #32
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You are subsidizing ethanol production. So you're thinking it's for us, right? No it's not. According to this year's figures you'll be dishing out $24 billion for ethanol.

Some figures to look at. Take note where the ethanol is going. Not in YOUR tanks!

Ethanol Production Numbers Up, Exports Surge - Domestic Fuel


Somebody is fooling somebody. How many billions of gallons did you pay for that went somewhere else? What are the fools doing? Trying to even up the foreign trade numbers? On your back?

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/news/entry...for-june-2010/
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Old 09-13-2010, 02:18 PM   #33
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Do you believe the Cato Institute? Do you want to see the con job perpetrated upon you? Do you want to see just how stinking sneaky and unpatriotic people can be? If you want to believe that there was EVER anything good about ethanol don't bother reading this..It's not even current. It's from 1995. They've been doing it to you for a long time only now it's in spades.

Yes it is a semi long document. Like cattledog said you need some knowledge. You need background that was written long before this current con job called ethanol.

Archer Daniels Midland: A Case Study In Corporate Welfare

Just in case you can't figure it out. This is not Mr O**** bashing. I'm not picking on the farmers. I just think they make the wrong choices too many times. Ethanol stinks. Everything about it stinks.
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Old 09-13-2010, 02:49 PM   #34
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I believe current facts make a case here. Good knowledge is what it is about. If we all take the time to concider all the facts, we can make an informed decision. These are the best two links based on fact and darn good science. And Ethanol doesn't stink very clean burning. Growing corn helps the carbon foot print also from the fosil fuels.

www.poet.com

www.shareethaknowledge.com

I will agree that being a farmer might be the wrong choice sometimes, and we just don't feed our family, we feed lots of familys and were very proud we do. And that is the write choice. Happy Camping.
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:15 PM   #35
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I am new to this forum stuff, but here go's.
I have heard that adding STA-BIL, Marine Grade, to the gas will replace the lost power and protect the engine. Truth or No?
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:39 PM   #36
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Hi The Romer,
Welcome to our forum. New members are encouraged to post so let it fly.

Ever if STA-BIL did replace the octane the the cost is about $10 for about 16 oz. and there goes whatever you saved by buying ethanol. Since ethanol is produced to obtain energy independance I guess it fall in the category of all the other additives that are available to use.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:43 PM   #37
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Romar, Welcome and wade in anytime. Ethanol has a octane of 110 or more, unlike most regular unleaded at 86 to 91 and unleaded is more apt to go stale faster really faster and break down to sludge than Ethanol. But for long term storage such as boat and lawn mower and gen pack we always use sta-bil in all our stuff. I just think we do cause grandpa did. He was a smart man. Happy Camping.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:43 PM   #38
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Make all the sweet talk you want about ethanol. Ethanol is no good. The general population knows it but as usual doesn't do anything about it.

Here's the politics of ethanol working on you since before 1995.

"A lie told often enough becomes truth" Lenin
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:54 PM   #39
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Good goin cattledog. Give a man a rope and he just might hang himself.

Thanks for the Stabil endorsement. Now everyone here remember the endorsement of Stabil. Also remember that supposedly ethanol is the wonder fuel. It's saving yours and my life.

Well do yourselves a favor and go to the Stabil site. In particular go to this page.

The 411 about Ethanol page:

http://www.goldeagle.com/engine_care/411onethanol.aspx


Give me another helping of that ethanol sweet talk. I'll pass on that swig of Stabil.


The better product to counteract ethanol is StarTron. It's done with enzymes. One very small bottle treats 126 gallons of ethanol contaminated gasoline.



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Old 09-13-2010, 07:15 PM   #40
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About nothin

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being a farmer might be the wrong choice sometimes,

Get it straight. I didn't say that at all and you know it.

You're trying to make out a defense for the farmer. The farmer was never attacked. Tugging at the heart strings is all part of the game. Just because they were more familiar with makin corn squeezins, so that's what they chose is just another mistake made by farmers.

It's not about "being a farmer".
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:00 PM   #41
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Make all the sweet talk you want about ethanol. Ethanol is no good. The general population knows it but as usual doesn't do anything about it.

Here's the politics of ethanol working on you since before 1995.

"A lie told often enough becomes truth" Lenin
Lets just stay in the 19th century and keep using black gold until ? Alternative fuel is needed in any form to rid our dependance on oil.
Everyone has their ideas on what future cars will run on and there are a lot of different ones on the road today.Fuel from corn,sugar,poop,natural gas,electric,soy,lets say anything but oil.We should get away from miles per gallon and convert to miles per $$$,for our future generations.$3.00 gallon here is $6.00 in europe which is $.91 in saudia arabia,$.12 in venezuela.
CNN/Money: Global gas prices
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:48 PM   #42
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CCCOOK129, I live in an earth sheltered home I designed and built in 1978.. I have used 100 gals average a year to heat my 2300 ft home. My home would have been paid for by grant from the DOE had President Reagan not taken their funding away in 1980. I use no Christmas lights. I did simple things like, I had my general contracting business switch over to Ford Couriers in 1980. Biggest complaint was how are we going to get a full unit of plywood on those things. Brains and planning was my answer. Went from full size Chevies at 13 miles or less per gallon to 35. I saved fuel for so long and save for the Brookhaven National labratory visits to my home for testing got no recognition in our local area. Nobody gave a damned about saving fuel. It only took ONE oil shortage in 74 to open my eyes so what the heck was wrong with everyone else? My designs and testing models were done by 1977.

So now I still have fuel efficient cars and trucks BUT I've got a nice big fat gas guzzling motorhome for myself. Well, maybe for the wife too but that's another issue. I have nearly given up on the rest of you (country wide that is). I figure I might as well use up what I was saving.. Nobody was patting me on the back for it! What does it take to wake everyone up from their torpor?

I'm totally fed up with all this NEW GREEN TECHNOLOGY. It's not new! Just a little cheaper. The most effective way to save fuel is to not need it in the first place. THEN you find the source. Guess what guys? If you've been watching too much TV home improvement shows, You don't need FOAM in your walls. What a farce.

My home withstood an architectural, engineering and technical review. I had to use mathematics to present my home for the grant. No guesswork.

When you see someone like myself dead set against this lousy ethanol you should pay attention. This country deserves better than the B.S. flying around for all these years by money grabbing con men. They do not have the best interests of this country in their thoughts.

Ah, just now I got the idea that I'm wasting my "breath" on this here.
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