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Old 05-09-2012, 12:06 PM   #29
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It is sad. Very sad. But if it is your time. It does not matter where or what you do Accidents are just what they are accidents

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Old 05-10-2012, 01:35 PM   #30
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Crash scene investigators say there are no "accidents", they are all crashes caused by someone/thing.

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Old 05-10-2012, 01:59 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Ray,IN View Post
Crash scene investigators say there are no "accidents", they are all crashes caused by someone/thing.

  • An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:59 PM   #32
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Rule of thumb when approaching a Auto,big rig or RV accident was to use SCBA's when I was in the local VFD. I was one of just a few qualified at the time for that equipment. Toxic fumes will kill a firefighter quicker then smoke inhalation in those circumstances. We take chances but not ones that put us in more danger then absolutely necessary. I don't believe hell itself could be any worse then walking into a building or RV fully engulfed in flames.

I suppose its time for an update to my current situation.
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Old 05-10-2012, 02:03 PM   #33
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As a retired state trooper I can tell you that when we pull into a rest area it is not to sleep. It is for a quick pit stop, walk around, and a streach. And then we are on our way. The rest areas are not a safe place, never have been and never will be. Don't leave your vehicle unlocked or out of site for very long. Over the years I met some really strange and unusual and undesireable people in the rest area.
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Old 05-10-2012, 02:25 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Ray,IN View Post
Crash scene investigators say there are no "accidents", they are all crashes caused by someone/thing.
That is true but what is the point? Having had accident/incident investigation training and participating is the investigation process I can confirm what was said as being true. Never-the-less, that is a distinction of little or no distinction for the vast majority of situations.

One definition of an accident is, "A series of events that leads to a catastrophic failure." When investigating accidents there are "face value facts". These generally lead to awarding some kind of statement on what the accident was both at officially recognized and publicly accepted statements of what the accident was. As an example, the truck driver fell asleep at the wheel and hit another car. But from an investigatory stand point, these are really a statements of what happened but not what caused it.

Investigators have to drill down deeper to find the root causes for a failure in the system. Did the truck driver drive too long, did the company push them too hard, was the car parked in the wrong place, and a whole host of factors that make up the final outcome. The purpose is to find systemic reasons for the outcome.

Once this is done then a systemic look at all factors leading to the outcome are given some kind of weight in figuring out risk factors. Some of this is an example of which came first, the chicken or the egg. (i.e. Is the root cause for the accident related to driver fatigue or company policy making the driver work until they are to tired?) So, in my example it would be clear that a sleeping driver was the predominate factor/event of the incident. The value of looking at the incident from a systemic model is tweaking factors associated with the risk. Looking into driver scheduling, company operating practices, equipment condition, ramp/parking area designing are some of the factors looked into. The goal is to find commonality with other similar events and to design procedures/equipment/training/roadway designs. This process helps find ways to help mitigate the inherent dangers related to vehicle operations.

OK...This sounds like I am dissecting this accident that started the thread and I have no facts directly related to that incident. I just sketched out a plausible set of similar circumstances for illustrative purposes.
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:50 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ramblin


[*]An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.
Problem you run into is a profession called "lawyers". If it is referred to as a accident that reduces the possibility of blame thus reducing the payout. About 7 or 8 years ago they started dispatching vehicle accidents as a "collision" or "crash". Example being "... respond to a multi-vehicle crash at... ".

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