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Old 02-04-2014, 09:58 PM   #1
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Fed up are you listening

I have read on the forums that dealers and manufacturers are
reading these forums.

If this is true..........

Wise up...we are tired of paying for very poor service, very poor
warranty, and most of all.......
DEALERS THAT DO NOT GIVE THE SERVICE THEY ARE PAID TO DO.

Over and over there are postings of bad service. Work being promised
and not done. New units being sold and not given proper PDI>
These are not cheap units we are buying but somehow the dealers
feel they can rip us off.

Not sure how to correct this. Maybe the best bet is to not pay until
satisfied with the work. I am tired of paying for something and then
finding out the work was not done.

The last time my coach was at the dealer, the "technician" said
"just because you paid for a job does not mean we did it".

I was floored but he also stated that "this was not a new coach, so
what do you expect?

I noticed when Monaco did a survey they never asked about
service, warranty, or dealer promises.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:04 AM   #2
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Funny, in the car business they only ask questions on the survey that pertain to the dealer.
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:45 AM   #3
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Sad isn't it? Car mechanics at a dealership make more money than RV technicians working for a dealership. On average, RV service techs make under $30k/yr (less than $20.00/hr) while the dealerships charge $100.00/hr on average. Even master certified RV techs barely break the $35k/yr mark. There are GOOD techs out there whether master certified or not, but attracting them and keeping them with the low wages is a problem. Let's face it.. the brightest and best certainly aren't going to be voluminous for that kind of money. An RV, regardless if it's a $75,000 or $450,000 vehicle is and always will be far more complex on an order of magnitude than any average $35,000 car. The skills required to properly maintain and repair all aspects of the RVs far exceed those turning wrenches on cars... No offense to them, I have great respect for their work.

Next time you're at your favorite dealership, have a look thru the service departments employee parking lot. :-)

The RV dealers industry has done this to itself - they've nobody else to blame.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:04 AM   #4
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Unfortunately I would say service is lacking in many industries these days (Check out a gas bar today compared to the 60s). Many large companies these days for example the metric customer satisfaction doesn't mean does the customer feel content and happy with the service rendered rather it means how fast/how much does the customer spend. The faster/more they spend the more "satisfied" they are. I worked for a Fortune 500 and this was their definition. I kid you not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoracing View Post
Funny, in the car business they only ask questions on the survey that pertain to the dealer.
As well dealers get mad if you don't give all (10's) since they have a bonus tied to this (some dealers go out and "ask" you to do so. I don't really think those surveys make much difference since a high turnover dealer with all 8s will rank higher then a mom and pop country location that has 1 irate customer and every other customer is completely satisfied.

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Originally Posted by 94-Newmar View Post
Sad isn't it? Car mechanics at a dealership make more money than RV technicians working for a dealership. On average, RV service techs make under $30k/yr (less than $20.00/hr) while the dealerships charge $100.00/hr on average....

... The RV dealers industry has done this to itself - they've nobody else to blame.
Unfortunately the mechanic doesn't make the full $100ish an hour. The dealer keeps a fair share of that money. What does push the pay up though is work is charged by hours on the book. With cars being less complicated the mechanic very seldom needs those hours (and those that do won't be hired by the dealership). As well when they do multiple jobs they tend to charge the full hours even if the job doesn't require it (you remove the fuel pump and do the belts both require removing some of the same parts on that car but they charge you "double" for that labor while only doing it once and replacing both parts at the same time). Where the techs can start making more money is by taking on more jobs by working fast. As well the techs that do work fast/have seniority, get dibs on the jobs at many dealers so they can choose jobs they do fast that have high billable hours. With RVs every "model" usually has a few floor plans each with different plumbing. If you buy a stripper of the same model as a loaded unit the a/c condenser will still be in the same spot. Or so i'm told by a mechanic friend a mechanic here can probably shed more light on the story.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:36 AM   #5
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The RV industry in many places tries using flat rate pricing for repairs. I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around that concept simply due to the complexity of these units. I mean, if you're bringing in your RV because you wiped the awning off of the side and simply need a new one then yes, I agree flat rate pricing could be used and at that point the required skill of the RV tech is diminished as the job has been reduced to a "parts changer".

It is a common misconception for customers to feel that flat rate pricing is beneficial to them. They are given a price by the service writer and told that this IS the price for doing the work needed. While the customer will only have to pay that price, what if the technician has encountered something that the service writer missed and now it's taking the tech another 2 hrs to finish the job? The service writer most likely isn't going to call you and tell you it's going to be more money now. The tech may not even tell the service writer he/she has encountered a problem because they don't want the wasted downtime while the service writer attempts to re-price the job and try to contact you for approval. What if you're not available right away to get approval from? The tech's bay is now "down" and not making any money. Perhaps it would take too much time to get your RV out of his/her bay while waiting for approval, to bring in their next job? Depending upon the size of the dealership's lot and how far your unit is "torn down" it may take the tech an hour or so to get yours out of the bay and get the next unit in. The technician certainly isn't going to "eat" the time, so he shortcuts the job in anyway possible to get out from underneath it and move on to the next. This all goes on behind your back, and you don't even know it. Unfortunately, this is how complaints happen such as from the original poster of this thread.

In my opinion, these units are far too complex, the number of issues and variables amongst all the different floorplans and models are far too great to be priced on a flat rate like automobile repairs are. Besides, a flat rate based service center for RV's is highly reliant upon the service writer's skills and unfortunately, most service writers have not ever been techs, nor in most cases are hired without requiring ANY RV knowledge - just like most Salespeople in the RV world :-)

Flat rate pricing should be compared to gambling in Vegas - remember that the house always wins in the end......
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:33 AM   #6
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I AM NOT sticking up for the industry.

I do wonder what the real percentage of problems the RV manufacturers really have?

We hear only the bad on public forums. We do not hear from the large number of people that are happy with their RV.

Here is a study cited within the article that suggest most people are happy: Facts about Formaldehyde & RVs: RV Quality & Customer Feedback
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:45 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Dog Folks View Post
I AM NOT sticking up for the industry.

I do wonder what the real percentage of problems the RV manufacturers really have?

We hear only the bad on public forums. We do not hear from the large number of people that are happy with their RV.

Here is a study cited within the article that suggest most people are happy: Facts about Formaldehyde & RVs: RV Quality & Customer Feedback
My 2, dealership repair problems will fix itself when enough people stop using them. Getting a industry of any type to spend more money to make the same profit on a repair is just not going to happen.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:09 AM   #8
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I Agree

I took my 64 Caddie in to a local shop to have the Carb adjusted and was told @ the door their mechanics don't know about Carbs/or work on them.
I was dumbfounded, Honest to God, True Fact.
I don't take anything there nor do I refer anyone to them.
tb,
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:24 AM   #9
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sounds like everyone is going to the same non-responsive dealership -----MINE!
When I picked up my MH in Sept. 2013, I thought it was just me that was getting this treatment. After the initial PDI "checklist", which incidentall never did get completed, I refuse to go there anymore. I will take it somewhere else, anywhere else.

I did meet a "mom/pop" small dealership at the Hershey show, that has a nice business taking care of the stuff the big guys don't at a reasonalble price.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:24 AM   #10
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SOME manufacturers and dealers read these forums. I know for example Workhorse did (I do not know if whomever now owns Workhorse trademark still does) and a few dealers who I know for a FACT read these forums (And still do but they are no longer dealing in that line).

Some.. Do not.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spritz View Post
I took my 64 Caddie in to a local shop to have the Carb adjusted and was told @ the door their mechanics don't know about Carbs/or work on them.
I was dumbfounded, Honest to God, True Fact.
I don't take anything there nor do I refer anyone to them.
tb,
I'm actually lucky I have two reputable garages that specialize in Classics for my toys. Our snob branded car dealer sales person went into a spiel "We do not hire mechanics, we hire factory trained certified technicians" Mechanics are "hacks" (He used a different word) that don't specialize and know how to perform a quality repair on our vehicles. They don't have access to all the tools and factory support... " Well ours is a 2007 and doesn't go to the dealer. Guess the wheels will fall off soon.

Next thing, crank window? Whats that?

Now in regards to dealer service for m/h is it better to find an independent repair shop in general?
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:40 AM   #12
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Keep in mind as you read these forums there are hundreds of thousands of RVers who are perfectly happy with their RVs and the service they get

On this and other RV forums you only see the few RVers who either have problems so they come to the forum for answers or to vent or the regular forum readers who chime in

I would guess for every 1 RVer who posts here there are at least 100 RVers who know nothing about these forums or don't read or contribute to the forums threads.

Your are seeing a small sampling of the whole RV world
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrngTrillium View Post
I'm actually lucky I have two reputable garages that specialize in Classics for my toys. Our snob branded car dealer sales person went into a spiel "We do not hire mechanics, we hire factory trained certified technicians" Mechanics are "hacks" (He used a different word) that don't specialize and know how to perform a quality repair on our vehicles. They don't have access to all the tools and factory support... " Well ours is a 2007 and doesn't go to the dealer. Guess the wheels will fall off soon.

Next thing, crank window? Whats that?

Now in regards to dealer service for m/h is it better to find an independent repair shop in general?

I did and do use the same one Independent he does all 3 of my vehicles. Very Very happy with them. I drive 40 miles one way to go to him, my choice.The other guy was 7 blocks away from the S&B. I figure if they didn't get it right (hasn't happened yet, 3 years) it will act up in that 40 miles plus I get to drive them
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spritz View Post
I took my 64 Caddie in to a local shop to have the Carb adjusted and was told @ the door their mechanics don't know about Carbs/or work on them.
I was dumbfounded, Honest to God, True Fact.
I don't take anything there nor do I refer anyone to them.
tb,
I don't find the fact that they are not familiar with the carburetor in your 1964 Cadillac unusual at all. A technician would have to be at least 60 years old to even be born when that car was built. Add another 18 - 20 years to get into the field and they would be almost 80 years old.

Keep in mind that some form of fuel injection has been installed on almost every car built after 1980. No technical school has taught anything about carburetors in over 35 years.
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