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Old 11-30-2013, 09:10 AM   #85
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I will not raise a white flag on this issue, but I am done trying on this thread as it is obviously futile.
Well good, because what you are trying to do is to modify an organization to fit only your desires. Why are you worried about it anyway, you don't want to join, you want them to join you and your non MH friends.

Give it a rest.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:11 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Steve Ownby View Post
For a guy who professes to be "done here" you seem to be having a hard time letting go.

I'm not sure why a guy who has so obviously never been a member, is so negative about an organization that he is gleefully hoping fails.

Why does an organization named:
Family
Motor
Coach
Association
Seem to be elitist to you? It was founded for motorhome owners and their unique issues.

I personally have never been a joiner and certainly not a "elitist country club type". FMCA is a diverse organization whose members own motorhomes of all types and ages and I have never met anyone at an FMCA event who seemed the least bit elite.

If you are truly "done here" then give the rest of us a break. Please don't even consider joining FMCA. I for one am sick to death of the relentless negative posting. Nobody here is advocating for you to join.
Maybe if everyone would stop trying to defend FMCA and let it stand or fail on it's own merits, the poster would stop responding? NO one to argue with? Just sayin.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:23 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Dog Folks View Post
Maybe if everyone would stop trying to defend FMCA and let it stand or fail on it's own merits, the poster would stop responding? NO one to argue with? Just sayin.
So this thread just comes to a end cause no boo's and eggs are thrown at the stage......... "the show must go on" !
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:26 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Dog Folks View Post
Maybe if everyone would stop trying to defend FMCA and let it stand or fail on it's own merits, the poster would stop responding? NO one to argue with? Just sayin.
My post contains no defense of FMCA. The leadership has been slow to respond to a changing marketplace. The poster is obsessed with what he perceives as an elitist attitude because a "motor coach" club does not include non motorized RVs. It would be perfectly fine with me if FMCA was opened up to towables but if the organization is as worthless as the poster indicates why would they want to join.

I'm also a full timer and have many friends and acquaintances who travel in towables. It has never occurred to them or me that the FMCA football is somehow elitist. Now that I've been enlightened, I'll be sure to elevate my nose slightly when in "mixed" company.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:38 AM   #89
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FMCA membership declined at a 7.8% annual rate in the first 6 months of 2013. Staffing was cut by 45% during the same period.

Sad
Dave,

I have followed and communicated with you many times going back to when I owned a Serrano. I have always found you to be a fair and understanding guy. FMCA (Family MOTOR COACH Association) is for owners of motor coaches and is no different than any other club designed to attract a specific audience. I also belong to the FCOC (Freightliner Chassis Owners Club), no Freightliner chassis no real reason to join. When I owners my Serrano I belonged to the Workhorse Chassis Motorhome Club. Again no Workhorse chassis no real need to join or belong so I cancelled my membership. Clubs with a specific charter is not bad or exclusive to others who do not own a motor coach. I also belong to the Thor Diesel Club and we do not allow non-Thor or gassers in the club. Are we a bad club/people for excluding these other categories? All of our communications and rallies are specific to diesel Thor Motor Coaches.

You are correct that their membership is in decline, mostly because members are ageing out faster than they are attracting new members. This is a known problem which resulted in a shakeup at the last national rally in Gillette, WY where we elected a new President/Vice President, plus others. The club had been operating in the RED for some time and was scheduled to do it again in 2013 when the new leadership team took over resulting in rightsizing the staff to be in line with revenues. I know that they are looking at other things to increase membership and I hope that they are successful because I do like FMCA and I do attend their rallies, National and Regional.

Thanks and Happy RVing!
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:50 AM   #90
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Dave, I have followed and communicated with you many times going back to when I owned a Serrano. I have always found you to be a fair and understanding guy. FMCA (Family MOTOR COACH Association) is for owners of motor coaches and is no different than any other club designed to attract a specific audience. I also belong to the FCOC (Freightliner Chassis Owners Club), no Freightliner chassis no real reason to join. When I owners my Serrano I belonged to the Workhorse Chassis Motorhome Club. Again no Workhorse chassis no real need to join or belong so I cancelled my membership. Clubs with a specific charter is not bad or exclusive to others who do not own a motor coach. I also belong to the Thor Diesel Club and we do not allow non-Thor or gassers in the club. Are we a bad club/people for excluding these other categories? All of our communications and rallies are specific to diesel Thor Motor Coaches. You are correct that their membership is in decline, mostly because members are ageing out faster than they are attracting new members. This is a known problem which resulted in a shakeup at the last national rally in Gillette, WY where we elected a new President/Vice President, plus others. The club had been operating in the RED for some time and was scheduled to do it again in 2013 when the new leadership team took over resulting in rightsizing the staff to be in line with revenues. I know that they are looking at other things to increase membership and I hope that they are successful because I do like FMCA and I do attend their rallies, National and Regional. Thanks and Happy RVing! Jack
Thanks Jack, for a thoughtful and well reasoned post.

Steve
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:52 AM   #91
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I wish I could make both FMCA Family Rallies this year. One in Perry and one in Redmond. I can only do the Perry.

Since I own a Itasca should I be upset that Jayco does not allow me to join? If I have a corvette and mustang club doesn't invite me should I be upset? I see FMCA as an organization that promotes a vehicle type that includes like minded people interested in that vehicle type. I owned a 5th Wheel and never in my mind did I think FMCA was conducting discrimination.

I like football but not crazy about baseball. Think I will refuse to join baseball but bad mouth baseball and also explain how they should change their rules so to play it like football. While I'm doing this I will be on the sidelines watching so I will not have to do any volunteer work to better the organization. Some like to watch from outside and criticize and some like to join and put forth the effort to improve.
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:25 PM   #92
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We seem to be at the line of of not being nice, everyone gets to make their own choice of what they wish to do.

Each side if we have to call it that has expressed their opinions let's leave it at that.
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:15 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by TheArnolds View Post

...

You are correct that their membership is in decline, mostly because members are ageing out faster than they are attracting new members. This is a known problem which resulted in a shakeup at the last national rally in Gillette, WY where we elected a new President/Vice President, plus others. The club had been operating in the RED for some time and was scheduled to do it again in 2013 when the new leadership team took over resulting in rightsizing the staff to be in line with revenues. I know that they are looking at other things to increase membership and I hope that they are successful because I do like FMCA and I do attend their rallies, National and Regional.

Thanks and Happy RVing!
Jack

Ok coming from a slightly younger perspective then some of these people out here (not quite 35 and will be in denial once I reach that marker). Amongst those I know, the current world economics are waging high on our minds. I know of many with college education working at menial jobs. Seems that there are two jobs out there primarily the highly specialized and those of us who get them are happy to have them and the "Would you like fries with that? Sorry we can't allow you to work more hours otherwise we'll have to spend on benefits. Also many businesses seem to our perception to no longer value employees, it seems like no matter how much you contribute you're lucky to go up one pay grade. It seems like you need to constantly switch workplaces to get ahead. Lots of companies seems to see tenure as a reason to get rid of a person (oh no he/she may collect pension). Also the JOLO/ME self entitlement seems to be more persuasive today. I find that being with a person today seems to get less attention then if you're constantly social networking them. It also appears (same city, 2 different schools) that there is indeed a great divide in attitude being taught in schools. No longer do we teach "whole person" skills unless a school has a very aggressive PTA. No penmanship, no etiquette, no "Particpaction" can't track fat content in kids with calipers unless you get sigs from parents, less field trips (unless you're at the right school), no in class dental hygiene at all schools, many subjects are "taboo" and PC/ Seems all the emphasis is on academics. But you can't really have academics if the student doesn't know what to do with it. There is also less rallying towards those losing good jobs. Many my generation and below seem to think that factory workers defending pay checks and jobs as "lazy/wanting to much money". Seeming to forget that we need all people to have money. They seems to forget the more the non-elite have to spend the more the elite have to make.

There is an emphasis on technology now. Kids with cell phones (I believe in no data for kids, and only when they're out since there are much less public phone booths now, cell phone goes away at home use the land line. Also no set phone, switched out so they aren't always at one number) . I play videogames. We have launch Wii U, X Box One, PS4. But for our household it is just another diversion, not the only one. Etc.

Then there is the attitude that camping is "bad" and not green. I kid you not. Oh the tents take resources for.... Many my age seem to not be interested in being parents, it's all about me.

No i'm not trying to go off topic but just explaining part of why membership may be in decline. I personally fail to see how not seeing the sites, going to museums, watching a game without commentary and instant replay is a bad thing. The smells of nature (yep all of them, we live where you can smell manure and be at a 100 plus store mall within minutes.) The more you see the more you realize how wonderful the world is. Lots seem to think their corner of the world is the only one that exists.

We need an attitude change in society back to the optimistic 50s and 60s. Need more sense of adventure and exploration. Hopefully this economic crisis will be over again and we can resume. Now there are others I know who would love to get into camping but the entry price point is quite hard (some of it regulated by standards). Remember what an motorhome was like and priced in the 70s? Now compare that motorhome to the average one today. Economics are part of the decline in motorhomes.

I will join the FMCA when I get that beast if only so I can get an egg on the back, a Samaritan smiling with a halo, a house on a little red wagon... Also keep in mind that rally's don't really appeal to families. Pacing and uh admit it some of you would hate to have the rugrats there. Some of us have well behaved and world-educated rugrats though :P
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:44 PM   #94
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As I state before, we just rejoined FMCA. No big deal, we felt our old coach didn't fit so we lapsed and then when we upgraded we rejoined.

Truth is the economy isn't really that great. I know, you hear all these stories about how great it is, NOT! Lots of folks are just scared right now. Will they have health care next year, will they have jobs, will they be able to retire, ect? I don't give a rip about politics, this is just the case. Okay, not everywhere, but in a lot of America. I still drive into town and see all sorts of empty buildings where there used to be businesses. I don't see much of them coming back yet.

My DW and I have plenty of assets. We could have purchased a new DP with no problems at all. We didn't. We have children struggling and want to leave some ramble room to help them if we need to. There are lots of folks who are holding back for that very same reason. This is not a good time.

FMCA and many other organizations are showing decline. No way around it. It's just another expense that one can do without. It's not like folks have money to throw around right now. Most folks including us are holding on to what money they have. Unless you are very very well off it is the prudent thing to do.

As far as the ME generation, People are people. I don't see much difference. Schools can try to teach some basic ideas that might seem wrong, but most young folks take little time in learning for themselves what works and what doesn't. Aren't we all working to better ourselves and our families? I know I am.

I guess what I am saying is that I have great faith in our way of life and the American people. We will get through this hard time just like we did the Depression, and we will come out the other end stronger, and when we do, and we again have capital to spread around, FMCA and other groups will again increase. There is an niche for the organization that will not go away.
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:46 PM   #95
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Calling a motor coach association "elitist" because they only allow motor coach owners to join is like calling the Harvard Alumni Association elitist because they only allow Harvard alumni to join.

If you want to join an organization that caters to ALL RV owners, regardless of motive power, then you join Good Sam...
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:49 PM   #96
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How could I display an FMCA placard on my rig and face my neighbors that are not welcome?
The same way I can proudly proclaim my membership in the American Legion when my neighbors, who are not wartime veterans, are not welcome to join.
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Old 11-30-2013, 05:26 PM   #97
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Well, friends, I must concede, capitulate.
I have been profoundly shaken, stirred, and humbled.

My appologies.

FMCA, as an independant non-profit org, has every right to deny membership to non-motorcoach owners.

I also think they need a push to survive, by attracting a larger and younger member base by establishing a separate TOWABLE CHAPTER.

I ask your indulgence to (PLEASE) read this link, in particular the entry by "diplomatman202" (Paul Dubois) in Dec 2011.
http://community.fmca.com/topic/3495...nkel-oct-2009/

Of particular interest, these words from Paul:

"When our membership was over 100,000 members, we had a steady stream of advertising coming into our magazine. Money was not a problem. Once our membership dropped below 100,000 members, our advertising also declined as advertisers felt they were no longer reaching enough people to justify the expense."

"....Our revenue is not meeting our expenses. We cannot continue to draw from our reserves and survive. We need to address two issues in order to survive. One is to greatly increase our membership, and the only way that we are going to do that is to attract younger members and the only way that this can be accomplished is to put the emphasis on families and make it attractive and affordable for younger persons with families to join. ...They are buying towables that can accommodate a family."

In order to attract these members we must have a product for them to be interested in. We must have benefits that will meet their needs. If we are successful in doing this the advertisers and revenue will return. If not, FMCA faces an uncertain future.

Paul DuBois
President Northeast Motorhome Association

And from Bill Reichert:
"I suggest to you that it would be in the best interest of FMCA to develop a Towable Chapter (maybe even limited to units with self-contained sanititaion sytems). There are thousands of them out there. Marketing to them would bring many to join FMCA, thus bolstering the ranks with young, active members and contributors. Where else is FMCA going to get more members?"
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:02 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by CampDaven View Post
Well, friends, I must concede, capitulate.
I have been profoundly shaken, stirred, and humbled.

My appologies.

FMCA, as an independant non-profit org, has every right to deny membership to non-motorcoach owners.

I also think they need a push to survive, by attracting a larger and younger member base by establishing a separate TOWABLE CHAPTER.

I ask your indulgence to (PLEASE) read this link, in particular the entry by "diplomatman202" (Paul Dubois) in Dec 2011.
It's Our Family: Help It Grow, Charlie Schrenkel, Oct. 2009 - FMCA Feedback - FMCA Motorhome Forums

Of particular interest, these words from Paul:

"When our membership was over 100,000 members, we had a steady stream of advertising coming into our magazine. Money was not a problem. Once our membership dropped below 100,000 members, our advertising also declined as advertisers felt they were no longer reaching enough people to justify the expense."

"....Our revenue is not meeting our expenses. We cannot continue to draw from our reserves and survive. We need to address two issues in order to survive. One is to greatly increase our membership, and the only way that we are going to do that is to attract younger members and the only way that this can be accomplished is to put the emphasis on families and make it attractive and affordable for younger persons with families to join. ...They are buying towables that can accommodate a family."

In order to attract these members we must have a product for them to be interested in. We must have benefits that will meet their needs. If we are successful in doing this the advertisers and revenue will return. If not, FMCA faces an uncertain future.

Paul DuBois
President Northeast Motorhome Association

And from Bill Reichert:
"I suggest to you that it would be in the best interest of FMCA to develop a Towable Chapter (maybe even limited to units with self-contained sanititaion sytems). There are thousands of them out there. Marketing to them would bring many to join FMCA, thus bolstering the ranks with young, active members and contributors. Where else is FMCA going to get more members?"
A fox in sheeps clothing............. STILL!
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