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Old 11-30-2013, 04:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse89 View Post
No GFCI needed for a RV 50 amp. or 30 amp. outdoor outlet, It must be in a enclosed covered box w/a lid that opens.
Stop and think of what a power pedestal looks like inside when you lift the lid to plug in....... only the 15-20 amp. plug is a GFCI.
True enough. I just wasn't sure what was on the "other end" of that pedestal. I'm perfectly happy with no GFCI - means I can use parts I already have!
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:14 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by myredracer View Post
...Do not install a separate ground rod at the remote outlet.
I don't understand or agree with this recommendation. IAW the NEC 551, a pedestal is considered a structure; therefore this installtion should be grounded with a rod (NEC 250) at the pedestal (structure) and not at the main/sub panel that provides power.

Redracer, please explain, with NEC requirement/exemption, the basis for recommendation.

OP, THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE and should be treated as such. You should get the opinion of a local electrical inspector prior to preceding. JM2...
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Old 11-30-2013, 07:57 PM   #17
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Ted, FWIW, this isn't a pedestal but just a surface-mounted outdoor outlet. That said, I may well get some local advice regarding other particulars.
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Old 11-30-2013, 08:21 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by teddyu View Post
I don't understand or agree with this recommendation. IAW the NEC 551, a pedestal is considered a structure; therefore this installtion should be grounded with a rod (NEC 250) at the pedestal (structure) and not at the main/sub panel that provides power.

Redracer, please explain, with NEC requirement/exemption, the basis for recommendation.

OP, THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE and should be treated as such. You should get the opinion of a local electrical inspector prior to preceding. JM2...
The normal thing to do for just a single remote receptacle is to run a ground wire (properly sized) from the main panel to the remote receptacle. I don't think the OP's receptacle is considered a "pedestal" because there's no breaker in it - it's just another recept. like you could have on the exterior of your house. There'd be no useful purpose in a breaker in a single recept. like the Op's one, then you'd have one in the RV, one in the remote recept. and one back in the house. Although, I have seen cgs wired like that.

But you have a good point, you should get a permit and have it inspected.
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Old 11-30-2013, 08:59 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by myredracer View Post
In all my years as an electrical engineer, I've never heard of that definition before. I could maybe see saying it's for temporary use of your RV when parked at home, but even then it'd be a stretch. Wouldn't that be like saying every receptacle in your house is temporary?
I realize it is not the definition in NEC article 527 or 590. But if it is plug connected it is not as permanent as hard wired, receptacles are for convenience and most are used on a temporary basics.

Take a look at this link from Seimens. They are all Temorary Power Panels and have receptacles.

http://w3.usa.siemens.com/powerdistr...01-047-055.pdf

https://www.google.com/search?source...y+power+outlet

And Midwest http://www.midwestelectric.com/product/tppo.htm
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:07 PM   #20
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I realize it is not the definition in NEC article 527 or 590. But if it is plug connected it is not as permanent as hard wired, receptacles are for convenience and most are used on a temporary basics.
Ah, I see what you are saying. It seems to be a point of definition and interpretation. Sometimes electrical installations can be for temporary work as mentioned in one of those links. The elec. code has had temporary installation work covered for a long time. This, from one of your links, seems to say an RV is considered a temporary load - NEC (2002) 551-71, 81, 46. The pieces of electrical equipment and the installation would still have to fully comply with all applicable rules as for any other application/use.

Because something is plugged into a remote outdoor recept. doesn't necessarily mean it's temporary. For ex., you can have a permanently installed sewage lift pump that is permanently plugged into a weatherproof recept.

It seems confusing to see Home Depot advertise a weatherproof receptacle for an RV that says "temporary" in the description. This receptacle would be permanently installed. I can see some retail purchasers not understanding the meaning of the term.

Interesting....
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:48 PM   #21
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It also would be handy to have a 110v outlet at the post. That way if you want to run a drill or a polisher for the MO would have a rec..
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:57 PM   #22
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Hey Steverino, we always used UG or UF cable for outside projects on the farm. That is direct burial rated cable, it has a really tough jacket insulation. We agree that you should go ahead and size for 50A and you won't be limited later. We just upgraded our hosts 30A setup to 50A. We used a 6/3 THHN cable with ground. That setup was all inside except the receptacle box which was mounted on an exterior wall. We did not install a gfic breaker but it's not a bad idea and is code now. We did use a gfi breaker on the 50A circuit we installed for our hot tub!
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:34 PM   #23
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If you are going to go through the trouble, you might as well put in a RV type power box. When we built our garage in 04 we only had a fiver with thirty amp. I went ahead and put 7 RV boxes all around the shop. From front to back and on side walls. Now we have a 50 amp rig and we have no problem. We can plug in inside or out and reach a plug. Back in or drive in. The three on the back wall also have cable tv and phone on the side all through the one inch conduct.
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:38 PM   #24
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Closed view. I use them for vacuums and many other things. On a outside deck you could use for electric smoker, radioes, the choice is endless.
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:50 PM   #25
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The one inch conduct. These boxes all have one 50, one 30 and two 20 amp receptacles. They do have a GFI on the twenty amp plugins only. I miscounted or forgot, but we have 8 of these boxes in the shop. They all get used some. We have fourplex 20 amp plugs all over the shop between these boxes. They get used the most and some are full.
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Old 12-01-2013, 08:27 PM   #26
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...For 32' you should be fine, but you need to consider the overall length from outlet to wherever the panel is. You could easily have another 50' or more. Unless you want to be able run a full 30 amps at home (with AC and other stuff on) and you have a long wire run, #10 should be fine. The ground wire can be a #14...:
Proper wire guage is determined by the round trip length. When in doubt, go to heavier guage.

For 120V service, all conductors are to be of tge same guage, unless the NEC has changed in the last couple decades.

If your RV can accept 50A service, there's little reason not to put in 50A service. The incremental cost is not much.
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Old 12-01-2013, 08:33 PM   #27
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I don't understand or agree with this recommendation. IAW the NEC 551, a pedestal is considered a structure; therefore this installtion should be grounded with a rod (NEC 250) at the pedestal (structure) and not at the main/sub panel that provides power...
I agree with this, but it doesn't fly in VA or FL. In VA I was required to install 2 ground rods at least 6' apart and extend the ground from my house's main panel to the sub panel in my remote garage. FL required one ground rod at a pedestal sub panel and extending the ground from the main panel.
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Old 12-01-2013, 08:39 PM   #28
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What ever way you go follow this correct wiring information.

More helpful links
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