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Old 08-23-2019, 08:51 PM   #1
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Fresh Diesel vs Biodiesel

This information comes from an Onan Commercial Generator Shop and I think it makes sense.

1) Truck Stops are suppose to have better filtration vs. the local gas station and I believe there is some truth to that. In addition, Diesel has lots of organic matter in it and when diesel sits algae grows and water is introduced by rain and humid conditions. Both are not good for your engine.

2) Bio-diesel blends may or may not be good for your engine, but there is no debate when it comes to bio-diesel causing trouble over time. So when fueling up, try to find a brand that does not use bio-diesel or one that say they do not have more than 5% bio-diesel. FYI... Bio basically means animal fat and/or vegetable oil.

3) B-20 has up to 20% bio-diesel and sometime you can't avoid buying it. We think it's ok to run bio-diesel, but be aware it gets "gummy" over time. So this is another reason to use diesel fuel additives.

==> We just recently changed from Lucas to Howe's, because we found our engine (and generator) runs smoother on Howe's, and Howe's is easier to put in your tank because it's very thin and pours out easily vs. Lucas which is thick and takes a while to get into your tank. (SO TRY HOWE's the next time you are at Walmart or a truck stop. We think you will like it!)

* All diesel gells-up in cold weather below 35F so don't be in a hurry; i.e., use your engine block heater before you start your engine when it's below 40F outside.

* Whenever you store your RV for a longer than 1 month, make sure you have a full tank and make sure you put a additive in it. We like Biocides and other owners have said "Star Tron" for diesel is good for long term storage, because it has enzymes that will eat your organic matter inside your fuel tank.

Side Note: We also ran some "Hot Shot" in our engine the other day and that stuff worked great! Our MPG is up and our engine is running smoother.

So while we were paying a lot of attention to filtration, we think everyone should pay a lot of attention to the percent of bio-diesel they are putting in their tank.

===
In Houston Area the Valero Stations had a 5% Bio-diesel sticker on the pump. However, all the other Stations we visited all had B-20 stickers.

Does anyone know what stations carry low Bio-Diesel fuels or are they all posting B-20 and there is nothing we can do. (Again, B-20 means "up to 20% bio-diesel.) To bad there is not a diesel test we can preform at the pump? ...Or is there?
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:04 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imnprsd View Post
This information comes from an Onan Commercial Generator Shop and I think it makes sense.

1) Truck Stops are suppose to have better filtration vs. the local gas station and I believe there is some truth to that. In addition, Diesel has lots of organic matter in it and when diesel sits algae grows and water is introduced by rain and humid conditions. Both are not good for your engine.

2) Bio-diesel blends may or may not be good for your engine, but there is no debate when it comes to bio-diesel causing trouble over time. So when fueling up, try to find a brand that does not use bio-diesel or one that say they do not have more than 5% bio-diesel. FYI... Bio basically means animal fat and/or vegetable oil.

3) B-20 has up to 20% bio-diesel and sometime you can't avoid buying it. We think it's ok to run bio-diesel, but be aware it gets "gummy" over time. So this is another reason to use diesel fuel additives.

==> We just recently changed from Lucas to Howe's, because we found our engine (and generator) runs smoother on Howe's, and Howe's is easier to put in your tank because it's very thin and pours out easily vs. Lucas which is thick and takes a while to get into your tank. (SO TRY HOWE's the next time you are at Walmart or a truck stop. We think you will like it!)

* All diesel gells-up in cold weather below 35F so don't be in a hurry; i.e., use your engine block heater before you start your engine when it's below 40F outside.

* Whenever you store your RV for a longer than 1 month, make sure you have a full tank and make sure you put a additive in it. We like Biocides and other owners have said "Star Tron" for diesel is good for long term storage, because it has enzymes that will eat your organic matter inside your fuel tank.

Side Note: We also ran some "Hot Shot" in our engine the other day and that stuff worked great! Our MPG is up and our engine is running smoother.

So while we were paying a lot of attention to filtration, we think everyone should pay a lot of attention to the percent of bio-diesel they are putting in their tank.
I'd suggest a better title for your thread. Can you edit? Or start over. Right now it just says "F," which doesn't seem to have anything to do with what you are sharing.
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Old 08-23-2019, 10:34 PM   #3
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I'd suggest a better title for your thread. Can you edit? Or start over. Right now it just says "F," which doesn't seem to have anything to do with what you are sharing.
You only have 10 min. or so to do an edit. However, if you notify the Moderator he/she can do it for you. On your post on the far left bottom is a red triangle. Click it to state your problem.
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:07 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by twogypsies View Post
You only have 10 min. or so to do an edit. However, if you notify the Moderator he/she can do it for you. On your post on the far left bottom is a red triangle. Click it to state your problem.
I thought the red triangle was for reporting a problematic post? Wouldn't have thought of using it to get help with editing.
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:19 AM   #5
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Trying to look into this further, one of the things I found was regarding the supplier:... make sure their fuel supplier adheres strictly to the guidelines of ASTM D6751. ASTM refers to the American Society of Testing and Materials International, one of several world standard-setting organizations that has adopted approved specifications for biodiesel.

This fits with some of the info in the OP. I suspect truck stops are going to be more careful to have good suppliers because if a particular truck stop gets known for bad fuel, the word would get out.

We had an issue with sludge in the heating oil in our sticks & bricks. When we changed suppliers, the problem went away.

The other thing I've heard, which makes sense, is that truck stops have the highest turn over of fuel, so not sitting and growing things.

Not sure about the percentages though. Probably mandated by some regulatory entity.
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Old 08-24-2019, 02:43 PM   #6
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I think you are tarring all possible kinds of bio-diesel with the same brush and that is a mstake. While the term "bio-diesel" includes the stuff made by filtering used fry grease, it alsoi includes the stuff from virgin corn or other vegetation. When you buy 5% or 10% bio-diesel as a major fuel outlet, the fuel meets ASTM D6751, the accepted USA standard for diesel fuel. This stuff comes from accredited diesel refiners and is blended with high quality biologic material.


You don't have a lot of choice because federal laws require increased use of renewable fuels, which means bio-gas and bio-diesel. All the refineries have to deliver some bio-diesel as a percentage of the fuel they sell, so B10 or B20 is what is going to be available at the pump.
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Old 08-24-2019, 03:01 PM   #7
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I worked as a mechanic for Yellow Freight in the early 1980 in Phoenix. They had a million gallon diesel fuel storage there! This was due to the fuel cost increases and shortages of the time. Fuel was trucked from this site as needed in other areas of the SW.
Anyway, this same supply was piped to the fuel island and we were tasked with keeping the huge filters maintained. It was amazing to see live things swimming in the water, dirt, whatever, at the bottom of the filter containers.

The loading, unloading bay had it own fire foam system and it was set off a couple of time accidently by the drivers. Don't know what they did but it was funny on a sick scale.

Wonder if those same swimmers prefer biodiesel over plain old diesel?
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Old 08-28-2019, 06:40 PM   #8
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So if there is no sticker on the Diesel pump indicating the percent of bio-diesel being sold, does that mean they are selling 5% bio-diesel or less?

And Wikipedia has a lot of information on the amount of energy/pound to compare and debate the pros and cons of bio-diesel use.

I got a little confused on the tax implications and/or profit motives of using bio-diesel, so if someone can sum that up I would be curious as to the motivations of the STATE and the Refineries vs what's good for your engine.

I have an older 2003 Cummins ISC engine with a CAPS injection pump, so I'm mostly concerned about lubricity. Or should I say the loss of lubricity due to ULSD fuels introduced in 2006. And Wikipedia says that Bio-diesel are suppose to have better lubricating properties, but less BTUs/pound.

The argument then becomes: If you get less MPG and have to burn more fuel, how then does bio-diesel benefit the user or our environment?

And since I am not a DEF user, I'm guessing you guys have your own concerns about bio-diesel. Is that right?
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Old 08-28-2019, 06:51 PM   #9
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So if there is no sticker on the Diesel pump indicating the percent of bio-diesel being sold, does that mean they are selling 5% bio-diesel or less?

And Wikipedia has a lot of information on the amount of energy/pound to compare and debate the pros and cons of bio-diesel use.

I got a little confused on the tax implications and/or profit motives of using bio-diesel, so if someone can sum that up I would be curious as to the motivations of the STATE and the Refineries vs what's good for your engine.

I have an older 2003 Cummins ISC engine with a CAPS injection pump, so I'm mostly concerned about lubricity. Or should I say the loss of lubricity due to ULSD fuels introduced in 2006. And Wikipedia says that Bio-diesel are suppose to have better lubricating properties, but less BTUs/pound.

The argument then becomes: If you get less MPG and have to burn more fuel, how then does bio-diesel benefit the user or our environment?

And since I am not a DEF user, I'm guessing you guys have your own concerns about bio-diesel. Is that right?
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Old 08-28-2019, 07:11 PM   #10
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Your over thinking this Bio Diesel additive !
I've traveled over 240,000 miles on my 1992 Cummins 8.3 C since 2002 and I've used uls fuels when they came out and now I use the Bio- mix at the pump -(ONLY FLYING J's) for years and have (0) Fuel issues. I do add a QT of Diesel Kleen at every Fill up ! My advise - change all of your Fuel Filters every 5 to 8 K miles. And Always Fill the tank when you park it !
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Old 08-28-2019, 07:16 PM   #11
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"I have an older 2003 Cummins ISC engine with a CAPS injection pump, so I'm mostly concerned about lubricity. Or should I say the loss of lubricity due to ULSD fuels introduced in 2006. "

Local school bus operator pours a gallon of 30w oil in fuel tank to keep them out of shop and on the road. As they are older diesels that weren't made for ULSD fuel. Also heard same from dump and cement truck fleets with older diesels. FWIW
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Old 08-28-2019, 11:22 PM   #12
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Thank you SkyPilot_1 for answering one of my questions and sharing your concerns about today's fuel, especially if you own a pre-2005 coach with a Cummins ISC/ISL with a CAPS injection pump.

As for everyone else who likes to use the expression: "You are over thinking it." Well, that just sounds like a you do know the answer.

So I'm going to restate my questions to keep this thread interesting and informative. I for one would like to learn something from those who can share their experiences, not their opinions on subjects they don't know about.

For example, are you saying people are adding a gallon of cheap 30W motor oil to each 100 gallon tank in their older CAPS system engines? I'm not sure I would do that, but I suppose oil is cleaner than animal fat. Hummm... Are you sure this is right? I mean, 4 quarts of the cheapest oil wouldn't be that much cheaper than a diesel fuel additive; so I vote fuel additive. And Howe's is working for us and it's easy to put in your tank vs. Lucus which is thick and slow to add.

===== REPRINTED QUESTIONS =====

So if there is no sticker on the Diesel pump indicating the percent of bio-diesel being sold, does that mean they are selling 5% bio-diesel or less?

And Wikipedia has a lot of information on the amount of energy/pound to compare and debate the pros and cons of bio-diesel use.

I got a little confused on the tax implications and/or profit motives of using bio-diesel, so if someone can sum that up I would be curious as to the motivations of the STATE and the Refineries vs what's good for your engine.

I have an older 2003 Cummins ISC engine with a CAPS injection pump, so I'm mostly concerned about lubricity. Or should I say the loss of lubricity due to ULSD fuels introduced in 2006. And Wikipedia says that Bio-diesel are suppose to have better lubricating properties, but less BTUs/pound.

The argument then becomes: If you get less MPG and have to burn more fuel, how then does bio-diesel benefit the user or our environment?

And since I am not a DEF user, I'm guessing you guys have your own concerns about bio-diesel. Is that right?
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Old 08-29-2019, 06:00 AM   #13
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DEF has nothing to do with fuel.
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:37 AM   #14
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Cummins (can't speak to others) okayed Biodiesel up to B20 for their engines a decade ago. How would anyone today be able to travel anywhere if they only used #2 diesel. The Feds mandated that the pumps didn't have to be ID as to percentage of Bio if under 5%. One would not know exactly what the % is as 5% and under isn't stated on pump at all.
I've talked with fuel tanker drivers that stated they haul a different % of Biodiesel daily and it gets added to whatever is in the truck stop tanks. So you have a mixture , but never more than B20. Thats why pump markings state "may contain up to 20 % Biodiesel"

And yes Im sure. The fleet bus shops added straight 30w engine oil to large capacity fuel tanks which makes it about a 4% mix.
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