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Old 05-03-2012, 12:46 PM   #15
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That is a great part of it, but demand is still running it up. India has had a dramatic increase in demand, and no matter what anyone says, so has China. Between India and China the growth in demand is going to dictate prices. The government of China also subsidizes the price at the pump so demand will not go down there.

I thought I read a previous post that said the price of Natural Gas is still high. My heating bill has been very low the last 2 years, so I don't think that is the case. When gasoline gets expensive enough, Natural Gas and electric cars will then be more commonplace. Once we start using Natural Gas in our cars, then watch that price!
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:48 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCooke View Post
Market based economics is not my strong suit. (Mechanical by nature)
So are you saying that basically speculators are driving the extra premium that we are paying for oil?
Speculators are a major cause of market variations. Demand is what dictates the long-term price trend, based on available supply. While there are hundreds (if not thousands) of influencing factors, I'd say stick to your mechanical instincts and look at supply/demand. That just cuts through a lot of BS and other smoke & mirrors that are more distractions than anything else. Just make sure to take your blinders off and look at the global picture.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:17 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Davdeb1 View Post
I thought I read a previous post that said the price of Natural Gas is still high. My heating bill has been very low the last 2 years, so I don't think that is the case. When gasoline gets expensive enough, Natural Gas and electric cars will then be more commonplace. Once we start using Natural Gas in our cars, then watch that price!
Here's a quick and easy graph that shows the historical price of NG:
Natural Gas

I agree that once we are forced to rely on NG, the price will go up. The market is a perfectly balanced machine. Capitalism is still by far the best deal around..!
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:27 PM   #18
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News reports have indicated that Congress has investigated these charges in the past but found no evidence of price fixing, can you pleas expand on your comments.

Nick
Funny how the "almighty dollar" can blind someone doing an "investation."
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:42 PM   #19
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To the OP's question. Crude oil prices are high because there's a well-established global infrastructure to ship crude oil wherever the demand (and prices) are the greatest. Natural gas - not so much.

In order to ship natural gas across the ocean, it must be liquefied at a LNG (liquefied natural gas) shipping terminal, an LNG tanker must be available to load the LNG and transport it, and a receiving terminal must be available to offload the LNG and convert it back to pipeline-quality natural gas in a gaseous state.

Due to the shale gas discoveries and exploration/production technology advances (e.g., horizontal drilling, hydraulic fracking of the formations, etc.) over the last decade, natural gas supplies have increased dramatically in the United States, and with no corresponding increase in demand, the price has dropped even more dramatically. In response to this, U.S. producers are looking at global markets to sell their excess supplies of natural gas where pricing is more favorable. As an example, the following article was in today's Compressor TechTwo e-news release:

Quote:
U.S. regulators approved Cheniere Energy’s plan to build an export plant for liquefied natural gas (LNG) at Sabine Pass, Louisiana, U.S.A.
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The move has already generated interest among its customers. Cheniere said customers from Europe, India and South Korea have signed long-term supply deals.
The article in its entirety is available HERE. This LNG export facility will be followed by others. Many companies who built LNG IMPORT terminals back in the 70s and 80s that have been mothballed are looking to convert them to LNG EXPORT terminals.

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Old 05-03-2012, 02:51 PM   #20
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Funny how preconceived notions and prejudices can blind someone into making completely unsubstantiated accusations. Please provide a reasonable basis for your comments. We go through this every couple of years, every time gas prices spike.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:58 PM   #21
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Funny how the "almighty dollar" can blind someone doing an "investation."

So your contention is that the big, bad oil companies have bought off every presidential administration, every Congressional committee, every state's Attorney General, etc. who has looked for any evidence of price fixing? Wow, that's quite a conspiracy!

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Old 05-03-2012, 03:08 PM   #22
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So your contention is that the big, bad oil companies have bought off every presidential administration, every Congressional committee, every state's Attorney General, etc. who has looked for any evidence of price fixing? Wow, that's quite a conspiracy!

Rusty
Hey Rusty, it just sounds like the American way!!!!
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:26 PM   #23
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Thanks all.

I just see quotes in Reuters like:
"There is speculation on the market. We have plenty of oil on the market and we are working to bring the prices down," he added ahead of the cartel's next scheduled production meeting in Vienna next month. From Secretary General of OPEC.

and:
"According to the US Department of Energy, US crude oil stocks climbed 2.8 million barrels last week and are now at their highest level since September 1990."

Then wonder how we are closing refineries (if they are for light sweet, converting). Any one see where Delta is getting into the fuel business?

...sigh.... I just want to pay less.... ....this post is cooked.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:43 PM   #24
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The oil companies may not be anticipating a shortage of oil as they have purchased one (1) square mile of land near Patoka, IL and have been building oil storage tanks of 1.5 million gallons or larger for the last three (3) years and the welders are planning on being employed there for at least five (5) more years. I have driven through what parts of the storage area that they allow the public to visit and the tanks are huge.

What the oil companies should be building are refineries, but at a cost of $1 billion each, they would rather shut down the old refineries periodically for "refurbishing" so they can create artificial shortages.

I have also drawn the conclusion that the oil companies do not believe that we have reached the end times in the production of oil or they would not be investing so much money in new storage tanks in the Midwest.
Oil companies would love to build and enlarge their refineries. Flying J bought a small refinery in Bakersfield CA, and wanted to expand its capacity. For about six (6) years of legal permitting snafus and denials they finally sold it to another company.
The reason we do not have more refineries is because the GOVERNMENT at every level, Federal, State and Local will not issue permits for their construction. Has anyone ever heard of an Environmental Impact Report? Our government regulators and the environmentalist are in bed together and screwing everyone.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Funny how the "almighty dollar" can blind someone doing an "investation."
You would really have to stretch the "conspiracy theory" to stretching point to think that our government is actively allowing this price fixing. It seems like every time the gasoline price spikes, people are saying the President is allowing this to happen or even conspiring to it. If you all remember, there was a big lie being spread by all the Bush haters. They said that Bush was paying back and conspiring with all his rich oil buddies by letting the price of oil go so high. That was being spread by everyone on the other side of the political spectrum.

Now, how the tables have turned. The other side now states that Obama is to blame for these high oil prices. The thought, that the President of the United States can actually conspire to raise the price of oil is utterly ridiculous.

These thoughts come from people who don't understand the whole supply and demand nature of anything, or how speculation affects thing. It is a lot easier to just blame a leader that they don't like. I hope my statements aren't deemed political. I am merely trying to make the point that ignorance and rumor shape many people's opinions and beliefs.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:01 PM   #26
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Ah! The public could stop it. We (the public) did it in 1974. Remember the "gas shortage" and the lines with alternating days of even/odd. If your license plate ended in an even number you got gas on even numbered days, and odd on odd numbered days. then they stated you could only get gas if you tank gauge read below the half tank mark.

So the public media really, really came all out and informed the public that "car pooling" would increase the supply and reduce the demand.

Remember those days.

It was a short lived gas shortage, because the public really did car pool, the supply went up, demand went down, and the gas shortage became non-existent.

Oh! Where I purchased my gas the owner told me that he never had a shortage and I could get all the gas I needed for any vehicle I have.

Was the shortage in '74 hype?

It is so unfortunate the the media will not take up arms for that same fight, and that the public just refuses to cut back on fuel usage.
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Old 05-04-2012, 03:12 PM   #27
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An article about speculation, right or wrong I don't know, but it is food for thought, Wall Street's oil scam - AlterNet - Salon.com
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:10 PM   #28
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henderson, good article! Not sure I agree with the comparison with the housing bubble, as I consider that one to have been initiated by politicians, but the speculation part is probably valid. Something I'd never thought of is the price differential between Brent oil and other sources as being a factor in the northeast refinery closures. That makes perfect sense.
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