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Old 04-09-2008, 06:45 PM   #1
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My fun in traveling fun roads is no longer fun. When diesel prices got higher than gas prices at the pump I was sad. When diesel prices hit $2.50 per gallon my motorhome sat at one place longer just to save on the fuel bill each month. When diesel prices hit $3.00 per gallon I sat in one spot for a season. When diesel prices topped $3.50 per gallon, I sold my 40' diesel pusher and purchased a smaller class A gas powered motorhome. Now with diesel prices at $4.09 per gallon in Jacksonville, Fl I really feel for every one of you. How does one take paying $409.00 to fill your fuel tank knowing it will only get you about 800 miles down the road? The solution is to take action and say Enough is Enough. To that extent I have started a blog page entitled "Vote to Regulate Gas Prices" at http://votetoregulategasprices.blogspot.com/ It seems our only real solution is to Vote to Regulate Gasoline and Diesel Prices in the upcoming election. Please check it out and add your ideas to my blog. It is grass roots efforts that really get things done in this country and the time for that is now.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:45 PM   #2
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My fun in traveling fun roads is no longer fun. When diesel prices got higher than gas prices at the pump I was sad. When diesel prices hit $2.50 per gallon my motorhome sat at one place longer just to save on the fuel bill each month. When diesel prices hit $3.00 per gallon I sat in one spot for a season. When diesel prices topped $3.50 per gallon, I sold my 40' diesel pusher and purchased a smaller class A gas powered motorhome. Now with diesel prices at $4.09 per gallon in Jacksonville, Fl I really feel for every one of you. How does one take paying $409.00 to fill your fuel tank knowing it will only get you about 800 miles down the road? The solution is to take action and say Enough is Enough. To that extent I have started a blog page entitled "Vote to Regulate Gas Prices" at http://votetoregulategasprices.blogspot.com/ It seems our only real solution is to Vote to Regulate Gasoline and Diesel Prices in the upcoming election. Please check it out and add your ideas to my blog. It is grass roots efforts that really get things done in this country and the time for that is now.
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Old 04-10-2008, 05:25 AM   #3
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Government regulation was tried in 1973 with the Emergency Petroleum Allocation Act of 1973 which resulted in shortages and long lines in 1979. In 1981, the we responded to the shortages by removing those price and allocation controls on the oil industry. Would history repeat itself if we had controls now?
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Old 04-10-2008, 05:36 AM   #4
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I don't know the answer to that question, but I do know that it won't get better until it gets worse. I am just sad that I didn't get to enjoy the better times of camping. What I will do is endevor to enjoy these times, as they are all I have.
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:28 AM   #5
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Yeah that is just what we need - more government regulations.

I was working for Chevron at the time and we had lines two blocks long, stations without gas and everyone hated the oil companies. When the deregulation happened prices came back to what the market would bear.
Right now the speculators are driving the price of crude up. Bidding and buying futures, knowing the price will not drop.
There is no way to stop this except lower the demand. With China becoming the a consumer giant and needing oil to grow there is little to do except to ride it out.
What we need (IMHO) is more refineries. With crude at $110+ the older, low yield wells are again becoming profitable again. Further, we are paying these ridiculous prices for the light, sweet crude. Whereas the less desirable higher sulphur grade is bringing much less per barrel. New refineries would allow this oil to be used more efficiently and at a lower price.

**covers head - anticipating an attack from Al Gore or supporters**
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Old 04-10-2008, 04:13 PM   #6
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doc:
Yeah that is just what we need - more government regulations.

What we need (IMHO) is more refineries. With crude at $110+ the older, low yield wells are again becoming profitable again. Further, we are paying these ridiculous prices for the light, sweet crude. Whereas the less desirable higher sulphur grade is bringing much less per barrel. New refineries would allow this oil to be used more efficiently and at a lower price.

**covers head - anticipating an attack from Al Gore or supporters** </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree we need more refineries but until we silence the enviromentalists it will never happen. They caused the shutdown and will not allow the rebirth. There is a man in Utah who is building his own in Green River, Utah at 3 billion dollars from his own pocket. Congress says you cant do that, his comment was try to stop me, and I have heard nothing more on it since. But word is he is going thru with it. We will know in about five years when its completed.
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Old 04-10-2008, 11:29 PM   #7
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I hate paying more for diesel but I also realize that most everyone loses much more in depreciation per month than they pay in fuel for their rigs. Fuel really isn't the highest cost item in our lifestyle and not only that its totally controllable by the user. Sure you will pay a lot to travel 30k miles a year but with the average RV'r traveling 6-8k miles thats what 1,000 gallons of fuel or around $4k a year.

For $333 a month I'd think if you love the lifestyle and if thats too much for you, get a PT job for a month or two and pay the increases to keep on traveling. In the grand scheme of things it pretty easy to offset even a large increase in fuel costs. You can always travel less often or closer to home to offset the costs.

Also at this point adding refineries will not help us IMO. We are looking at a critical juncture where oil is going to simply become too expensive and a switch to hydrogen will be in the works. Sure its going to take 10 years to start seeing those change but it will take half as long to get refineries up and running and who in their right mind wants to invest that kind of money when the future of oil is very finite.
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Old 04-11-2008, 05:03 AM   #8
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Georgia Flash:
I don't know the answer to that question, but I do know that it won't get better until it gets worse. I am just sad that I didn't get to enjoy the better times of camping. What I will do is endevor to enjoy these times, as they are all I have. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bill, I couldn't agree with your statement more, especially the last sentence. These are all the times my wife and I have to enjoy motorhoming also. Sad situation, wish I had an answer.

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Old 04-11-2008, 05:47 AM   #9
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I don't like or agree with the sudden increase in fuel prices but if they had gone up gradually along with most other things in the last 50 yrs. we would be paying $4 a gal for the fuel. We wouldn't be hurt and complaining because it would be just like everything else we buy. When I went to work for Boeing in 1956 I was making $2.38hr. and that same job was paying $23+ When I retired in 1995. Reg. gas was about $.329 in 1956.
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Old 04-11-2008, 06:06 AM   #10
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aridon:
Also at this point adding refineries will not help us IMO. We are looking at a critical juncture where oil is going to simply become too expensive and a switch to hydrogen will be in the works. Sure its going to take 10 years to start seeing those change but it will take half as long to get refineries up and running and who in their right mind wants to invest that kind of money when the future of oil is very finite. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ignoring your comments on having achieved "peak oil" and the resulting declining production, let's look at hydrogen for a moment.

Elemental hydrogen doesn't occur for long in our surroundings due to its tremendous affinity for the atoms of other elements. When it's found, it's in compounds such as CH4 (methane or natural gas) or H2O (water). To obtain pure hydrogen, the valence bonds between hydrogen and its associated compounding element(s) must be broken - this takes energy. This is why most engineers don't consider hydrogen to be a fuel source but instead look at it as an energy storage medium.

Realistically, if hydrogen is going to be made available in the quantities required to offset hydrocarbon-based transportation fuels, it's going to have to come from the electrolysis of sea water - using electrical energy to separate the hydrogen and oxygen atoms. So, where is all the electricity required to produce this hydrogen? Solar or wind by themselves can't handle it. The fact is, if we're going to move to hydrogen as a basic fuel source with minimal impact on the environment, electricity generated by nuclear energy is going to have to produce it. I wonder how the environmentalists are going to feel about all the new nuclear generating plants that will be required to produce this hydrogen??

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Old 04-11-2008, 06:49 AM   #11
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I have been reading on the internet about many billion barrels of oil being found in North Dakota and Montana. No word of this from the major networks but of course they much prefer bad news. Perhaps the radical environmentalists will be able to block drilling in North Dakota and Montana as they have in ANWR so even though there may be a lot of oil there we won't be able to get at it.
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Old 04-11-2008, 08:14 AM   #12
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lake:
I have been reading on the internet about many billion barrels of oil being found in North Dakota and Montana. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is shale oil. It's very expensive to recover oil from shale. If they recover the oil and use it for gas, gas will cost $5 a gallon. But we will have oil.

"radical environmentalists" ???
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Old 04-11-2008, 08:24 AM   #13
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Actually, it's oil in a shale formation. It appears that it can be recovered using standard fracture/proppant technology - i.e., the shale doesn't have to be mined.

See story HERE

There's a lot of truth to your premise, though - we're not necessarily running out of oil, just running out of cheap oil.

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Old 04-11-2008, 08:41 AM   #14
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I think what it boils down to is that oil companies are managed to produce as much profit as possible, the same as most any corporation.

When diesel hit $4.00 and above, demand didn't drop much.

I think what the oil companies learned from this is that the point on the price/demand graph where they make the most money is somewhere well above $4.00.

As an added bonus, the more high prices and profits drive demand down, the longer they can avoid investing in refining capacity.
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