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Old 05-05-2013, 06:45 AM   #43
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It's called "white card fraud" they can make a plastic card easily that can be swiped inside any store.
How do they not see that in a store when the card is swiped?
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:59 AM   #44
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Several times I left my drivers license instead of my CC. I have only had one station refuse to do that. I left and went to another one across the way and they were okay with it.
I would not recommends leaving your DL either. Swipe the card for the second time at the pump is the best answer. While I am at it, I also do not recommend using debit cards. Although fraudulent charges may be reimbursed, you may have over drafts in your account while you are trying to sort it out. Credit cards offer better protection, your checks wont bounce if someone has pulled all your money out of your bank account.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:31 AM   #45
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How do they not see that in a store when the card is swiped?
I can't think of a store I have been to in a long time that did not have the card swipe machine facing me, and usually positioned in such a way that the cashier really could not see it. Even if they could see the machine, someone really trying could easily conceal the card enough so that the cashier would not be able to spot that it was a fake. And that is not even accounting for the self checkout lanes.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:14 AM   #46
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i have a fake credit card that i leave inside. It was sent to me with a credit card app. looks like a real one but not. after i fill up i go back inside and tell them i gave them the wrong card and give them the wright one. Would deliver yachts and some of them take over 1,000 gal of fuel easy.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:46 AM   #47
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I would not recommends leaving your DL either. Swipe the card for the second time at the pump is the best answer. While I am at it, I also do not recommend using debit cards. Although fraudulent charges may be reimbursed, you may have over drafts in your account while you are trying to sort it out. Credit cards offer better protection, your checks wont bounce if someone has pulled all your money out of your bank account.
I also make a second and sometimes a third one if needed but places don't allow a second or third swipe. The ones that don't allow a second are rare but exist.

What could they do with my DL number that causes you to not recommend using it?
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:52 AM   #48
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Exactly. They perpetrators have a card writer and probably a stack of blank cards. Any card with a strip on the back can be used. They program the card reader with the stolen numbers and then go shopping. They don't need the 3 digit code or the expiration date.

In the past, a store had a "limit" where anything below that limit was batch processed at the end of the day. It keeps their costs down. This limit is set by the store, and through trial and error the thieves know what this limit is. So let us just assume that the limit is $300 dollars. Anything over that amount is checked immediately via computers and anything under is batch processed at the end of the day keeping the store costs down, or processed at the stores schedule time frame possibly twice or at the end of each 8 hour shift. When the thieves are using the card they will charge up to the store limit, then they can walk back into the store and charge again up to the store limit. They can do this many times and it will not register at the store. In all of these cases they use the "swipe" machine at the register so there is no handling of the card by a clerk.

Over the years the CC companies and stores collaborated on tighter security like asking for the security code, visibly looking at the card and entering in the last four numbers of the card, some asking for identification and verifying the name on the card and an additional ID. All of these methods worked, but John Q Public felt like it was an invasion of their privacy, complained, or just left the goods on the counter for the store to put back and went and shopped some place else that did not have such strict verification procedures, so in fact John Q Public screwed themselves.

I really would like my ID checked every time I use it - but it just isn't going to happen.

We do it to ourselves. Here is a little story on just such another security situation. At a Government agency, right after 9/11 it was mandatory that the security gate guard physically touch all identification badges and a second ID when anyone was entering the facility. This cause a little back-log at the gates to the facility and complaints were filed with "whoever" they filed them with and within 3 days it was only necessary for the gate guard to "see" the ID alone. That meant he could just look at the ID of the occupants of the vehicle through an open window. I worked closely with LEO's and Federal Agencies and we had our own agency Inspector General. One day as I was riding the the back seat and after a conversation, I swapped ID's with the female IG that was driving the automobile. The ID's were looked at and we were passed though. I can assure you I was not as good looking as she was.

It comes down to what the public wants, and then it comes down to the complacency of the organizations, stores and others as to how much the are willing to give up.

They give up a lot, and just to keep John Q Public happy.

Sorry for the rant.
Keep ranting. I'm learning a lot.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:54 AM   #49
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Bigd9- So how did they make the charges at several CVS stores without the actual card?
Back when the card wasn't swiped but was used to print a number, one thing they used to use was a heated flat plate to press the numbers on an existing card flat and then use a heated plate with your number set on it to press the number out. Today as Wayne said they can also rewrite the magnetic strip on an expired card.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:02 AM   #50
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I always wonder about that too. And, the only time I use my card is for internet purchases. (Yes, it's risky, but these days it's the only way I can purchase a lot of things. I live in a small town and big chain type stores killed all the mom and pop small town stores. If I can't buy it on-line I probley can't get it. ) When you make a internet purchase you must have your expiration date and the 3 numbers from the back of your card too.
The bank that now holds my Visa CC (Bank of America) offers "ShopSafe".
It's a service where I can go on-line and get a number that is keyed to my actual CC number. A three digit "magic" number is also provided. I can set the expiration date - usualy I set it at two months.
It can only be used once and for no more than a dollar amount I specify.

Unless they somehow hack into my account at BOA that is a safe way to shop on-line.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:54 AM   #51
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Howdy!

We have had our credit and debit cards replace four times in the last two years. I now never let my card out of my site. I usually have two swipe the card three to four times at the pump to fill up, and if they insist on holding the card I will give them and old card. When using it eating out I always go the to register and hand them the card. I did have one waitress advise me I could not do that so I simplely told her she was not getting paid if I had to give her my card. She then walked me into the kitchen area were they had the card reader, advised them they my want to rethink the location of their reader. If I hand my card to anyone and they try to turn their back are walk out of site with the card I stop them. This may not stop all skimming fraud on the card but its working and puts people on notice about the problem. The other problem I have is people now days wanting to write down you credit card information and debit the card later because they don't have a reader "NO WAY"! I have a doctor I visit that wants to do this, I've refuse to do so and pay in cash for my co-payment.

"Happy trails"
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:30 AM   #52
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Please keep in mind that there is no fool proof way to protect your identity. There are ways to minimize the threat and many of them are posted.

Here is a link to the Federal Trade Commission that has a lot of good information. Also remember that if you are the victim of fraud, immediately notify the police department in the area the fraud took place and fill out a police report. Recovery of your identity and recoup of money may not be readily available without a police report.

Consider using PayPal, but also keep in mind that even though it is a trusted security source, there are pitfalls. It is a username/password based system. Those can be compromised. Also, the $50 fraud limit that CC companies have does not apply when you use PayPal. All-in-all, it is (in my opinion) a safer way to do transactions over the internet. PayPal also offers a PayPal Master Card. I don't have any idea how it works.

Also when you are using the internet to purchase items, when it comes time to "check out," make sure that the URL line starts with the https and not just the http. The https is a Secure Socket Layer (SSL) that encrypts the transmission from your computer to the server. (see SSL. Without the SSL your information is transmitted in-the-clear (unencrypted).

Happy trails.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:16 PM   #53
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Bigd9- So how did they make the charges at several CVS stores without the actual card?


I don't have a clue. But I am learning a lot from this group!

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Also remember that if you are the victim of fraud, immediately notify the police department in the area the fraud took place and fill out a police report. Recovery of your identity and recoup of money may not be readily available without a police report.


This is a good suggestion.
I keep my cards close at hand and except for restaurants they never leave my sight.

Tell you what Wayne M, you sure have opened my eyes. I've learned more from your "rant" then either Visa Fraud, Credit Union or the CVS Pharmacy ever told me. Thanks!
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:42 PM   #54
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Had a credit card compromised a year ago. DW called me at work to ask whose woman was that we were sending flowers to on the east coast and had an email confirmation of the purchase in the middle of lots of other spam. Ironically I had been in Vegas for work the week before, but had not used that card. Boy, now that would be some explaining to do!

The thieves sent $500 of makeup from Hong Kong to a different location internationally and they signed me up for book clubs and ordered items online that were mailed to me. We got crocs (shoes) and many more "presents" over the next week. Even a little girl's princess costume. We caught the issue within 24 hours and was able to stop it from getting further.

Then I got nasty calls from the retailers wanting their money when the payments were stopped. One florist from England was particularly nasty. I had to contact each one, one by one, even making an international call.

The person with the card had signed up for a website that they anonymize their identity online. This made their IP address untraceable. I called that company and gave them my opinion of the illicit activities that their company promotes. Nevertheless, they would not reveal the customer/thief.

Called the local police. Called the police to where the flowers were going to in Maine as well. Local police even in our town of 20,000 are ill equipped to stop theft rings international in scope. I had an open case, but had no benefit from opening the case; still did anyway.

The credit card company never warned us of fraudulent charges. We caught it. The fact that the thief had our home address made it spooky.

I believe that once they had valid charges going through and by sending several purchases to our home address that makes it seem "legitimate" the fraud algorithms from the bank could not detect it. I speculate that it was a theft ring that would have consumed the entire credit limit.

My speculation is that a website we had to buy school supplies from that fall was where the card was compromised. (school required a specific site). Don't know for sure. Could have been at a hotel 2 months prior.


It was a hassle, compounded by a few legitimate charges I had on the account as well during the time period. I even got nasty late payment calls from the bank for charges that I did not make and had to remind them of my case and the fraud department. This went on for some time.

The issue was limited to this card, but I still signed up for identity theft protection and our card we use online immediately notifies me of any charges over the Internet and charges higher than a small threshold I have set.

My experience soured me on the bank in question (leaving name blank here) but it is one of the top 3 in the US in terms of size. The replacement card hasn't had a penny spent.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:54 PM   #55
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Wanderso,
Not surprisingly if they had your CC number they had your name, and could easily look up your address. Just give me a full name and I'll find an address.

Don't forget that one of the easiest ways to get information is dipsy-dumpster diving, like your trash cans. Or better yet, the facility where you signed your card and they just throw it away because it's a done deal. Those signed little receipts are just tossed when all is finished with the payment from the CC company. If it is the trash can in your back yard alley, or CG dumpster, you are just asking for ID Theft. Shred, shred, shred! The shredders are small and inexpensive in today's world.

The earlier machines do not xxxx out all but the last four numbers. Merchants have to upgrade their machines to the newer ones for that to happen. So, when you sign the receipt look at the numbers and if they are not xxxx'd out strike through them with the pen until all but the last four are unreadable.

I'll see if I can find my identity theft presentation and pull out some tidbits that I may have forgotten about.

There have been some good suggestions. I especially like the one about leaving a non-functioning CC at the counter of a truck stop. I have one of those "Energy company" rebate CC's and I'll start using that, just as I finish using up the $34 left on it.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:33 PM   #56
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We recently had our debit card and other personal info "hacked" from the DMV database after we registered our new toad in January. It was an employee. Our bank caught it, cancelled our card and informed us via their alert system. no fraud charges occurred. we were impressed.

Everyone you do business with has your info and credit card info regardless of how well you have safeguarded it during the transaction and it's vulnerable to a hacker at a later date. This was not the first time we had this happen with vendors we've done business with, both on and offline. It is the second time our banks caught it before we had any fraudulent charges. They are getting better.

None the less, DW is obsessive about watching all accounts that we use any type of card to access (sometimes daily). No fraudulent charges have been made with the actual plastic as we have never lost control of those. We've caught almost every one of them within 24 to 48 hours and 2-3 charges. You can't be too careful, and we haven't found any foolproof way to completely avoid it.

We are considering ID theft insurance.
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