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Fiesta48 · 04-11-2019, 11:37 AM

Lots of good info and theory. Easiest solution is...
No post/shore power with GFCI.

Solo_RV_Guy · 04-11-2019, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta48

Lots of good info and theory. Easiest solution is...
No post/shore power with GFCI.

In the latest revision of the National Electrical Code (NFPA70), 30 and 50 amp services outdoors are to be GFCI protected. Private campgrounds and parks will be slow to convert but new construction (and government-owned sites) will have them.

It's better to figure out why you have a ground fault than simply treat the symptom.

hohenwald48 · 04-11-2019, 12:03 PM

Ground faults are dangerous. Possibly deadly. Not a theory but a fact. If you have them you need to fix them.

J Birder · 04-11-2019, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hohenwald48

Ground faults are dangerous. Possibly deadly. Not a theory but a fact. If you have them you need to fix them.

That is a very misleading statement.

The GFCI shuts down when the current flowing in the hot line is not equal to the current flowing in the neutral. The only possible cause of such an imbalance, is that some current is returning as leakage to ground.

If that leakage is flowing through a person, then it might be deadly. However, when there is no person involved, then there is some other leakage path, which is almost certainly harmless.

Joel

garry1p · 04-11-2019, 12:42 PM

Many (not all) inverters come factory wired with ground neutral bonded.

If you have an inverter check it out could be bonded.

hohenwald48 · 04-11-2019, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Birder

However, when there is no person involved, then there is some other leakage path, which is almost certainly harmless.
Joel

Unless it's thru the skin of the RV which will eventually be touched by a person on the ground. Maybe a barefooted kid, who knows. Fix ground faults.

I don't understand why so many are willing to try to defend a potentially dangerous and improper wiring situation and simply shrug it off. Weird. I've had my say. Do as you please.

hohenwald48 · 04-11-2019, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garry1p

Many (not all) inverters come factory wired with ground neutral bonded.

If you have an inverter check it out could be bonded.

Might be true of a cheap WalMart inverter but most inverters of any quality will have a relay to bond or not bond depending on shore power status.

KanzKran · 04-11-2019, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hohenwald48

Ground faults are dangerous. Possibly deadly. Not a theory but a fact. If you have them you need to fix them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Birder

That is a very misleading statement.

The GFCI shuts down when the current flowing in the hot line is not equal to the current flowing in the neutral. The only possible cause of such an imbalance, is that some current is returning as leakage to ground.

If that leakage is flowing through a person, then it might be deadly. However, when there is no person involved, then there is some other leakage path, which is almost certainly harmless.

The current leakage pathway hohenwald48 refers to is a ground fault, and the current is technically called fault current. The ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) opens to clear the fault. Just a matter of semantics, but it's the language of the NEC. So as he said, if you have a ground fault, you need to fix it.

walt_embree · 04-11-2019, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KPC

RV has been fine using campground 50 amp power posts but when plugged into a friends house with a 50 amp GFI protected outlet the breaker pops .
Are campground posts GFI protected? Anyone know what could cause this?

My Samsung residential fridge compressor failed, and that’s what started the GFI to start tripping, although it worked fine for almost 3 years. During the investigation into repair procedures, it was noted by information and the repair person that a fridge should never be plugged into a GFI. Not sure why, but sure enough, dedicated outlet for the house fridge is not GFI’d. So, first step, if Res Fridge, turn it off as part of your isolation strategy. If NOT residential, then proceed as other posters have described in isolating your trouble source. Keep in mind that it might take some time to trip, so when activating circuits, allow some time (many minutes...several hours??) to see how the GFI responds.

powerpro · 04-11-2019, 03:30 PM

Gary RV Roamer is right on. The only thing that will trip a GFCI is an unbalance of current between the line and neutral on the circuit (4-5ma). I've seen some people, even electricians, wire a GFCI receptacle, shove it back into the box and have the bare ground just barely touch the neutral and the GFCI won't work because just enough of the neutral current will go back on the ground trip the device. Also a likely source could be that fridge ac heater element with a high resistance short, bleeding off to ground.. Follow the troubleshooting path Gary has for you, you'll find it!

bucks2 · 04-11-2019, 04:23 PM

All the Ground Fault Protection Devices are much more protective than the actual danger posed. Your bathroom device is set to 4-6 mA. Your underground swimming pool lights have a GFCI type device set to 30 mA.

So, if you touch a faulty device with a wet hand in your bathroom, when you can quickly pull away, you're allowed to get 4-6 nA. If you're totally immersed in the water, in the deep end and find a faulty light fixture leaking electricity, you can get up to 30 mA before it trips. Weird huh??

Tug · 04-11-2019, 05:03 PM

Ok GFI 50 circuit breakers on shore power have caused and is causing big problems in the marina industry. The same for RV’s .
It has to do with current return on the neutral wire.
Grounding or not is not the issue. Refer’s, inverters,battery chargers, microwaves, block heaters, water heaters and so on.
The Only Solution has been to install a isolation transformer on boat or RV side. Such as a Charles..
The input is two hots and a ground. Transformer outlet is two hots, a neutral, and a isolated ground..
You cannot believe the service outfits that are screwing over the public on this. Everybody is a expert until shtf....

Bullitt6283 · 04-11-2019, 05:21 PM

If I had a GFCI trip, I would want to know... for sure... what the ground fault problem really is. Just plugging into a non-protected power source is not a remedy.

When I worked in a factory building air conditioners, part of the UL testing was a high-potential test of the wiring to see if anything was close to being grounded. The windings of the compressor were excluded from that high voltage test (1500 volts) because the insulation of the wires in the compressor motor is very thin enamel and could be compromised. The same is true of refrigerator compressors. It is somewhat normal that you could have a small amount of hot-to-ground current leakage in refrigerator and air conditioner compressor motors.

As GFCI pedestals become more prevalent, we will be seeing more of these issues.

Piros1 · 04-11-2019, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat

No, all campgrounds are not GFCI protected but some are starting to be.

Reading complaints from people tripping them in State CGs. It will probably take years before private CGs switch over.

If switching off breakers, one at a time, doesn't isolate the problem, you may need to start removing the neutral of each item to isolate the leak to ground.

Could also be a surge guard doing its test thats causing the trip.

If you remove the neutral from each circuit please make sure you turn the circuit off before doing so. This is very dangerous, besides the arc flash which may be minor you never want to be in the path of a hot neutral circuit. once the neutral is open you can turn back on to check