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Old 10-09-2011, 04:20 PM   #211
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My testosterone is going through the roof reading all this stuff. I just came in from the front yard doing some close order drill with the mrs. I think maybe tommorw I might tear out the back yard and put in an infiltration course for me the Mrs. and our combat dog Sophie.
Damn, I'm ready to re-up. AARRrrrrrr.
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Old 10-09-2011, 06:30 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by DesertRhino View Post
I was always taught to carry the proper tools to make sure if there was a problem, you were properly prepared.

Spare tires, fire extinguisher, wrenches, water, first aid kit, communication device and other tools.

All things you hope you never need but you want the proper tool handy if it becomes necessary.
Well said! Most law enforcment never pull their side arm but they have in the event it is needed.
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Old 10-09-2011, 11:13 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by mustang652 View Post
"The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win - and cheat if necessary."

I like your rule better than mine, Stan.

I have always heard that the most important rule in a gunfight is: Have a gun.

-- Loren
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Old 10-09-2011, 11:29 PM   #214
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Yes, yes, not necessarily. Not all gun stores arm their employees. Liability considerations aside (those alone are enough to keep employees unarmed; insurance would also skyrocket or become impossible to get if they were armed), whether employees could be armed or not depends on local regulations.

It's been only a month or so since I saw on the local news about a guy shoplifting guns. The store staff didn't see it but it was on the video. I've seen news reports in the past of gun stores being robbed while the store was open. Granted, it doesn't happen often but it does happen.

Check here for accounts of gun store robberies. Some are successful, some are not.
Around here you won't find a gun store where the clerks aren't armed with loaded weapons, you will find a few large sporting goods stores that sell handguns that aren't armed (the stores are owned by a Canadian firm).

Shoplifting is not the same as robbery!
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Old 10-09-2011, 11:30 PM   #215
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Statistics also show that if armed confrontation arises, the person carrying the weapon for defense is 18 times more likely to die with their own gun.
 
Paul,
Im surprised that the ratio is that low. Since we can presume that none of the other people were carrying guns, I would guess that none of them got shot with their own guns.
 
Quote:
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Lets also count how many thousands, perhaps 10s of thousands, most of which are children under the age of 12, die each year or are maimed from accidental shootings including the former VPs hunting partner in Texas.
 
Regarding the accidental deaths of children, a total of 62 children between the ages of 1-14, inclusive, died from firearms accidents in 2008, the last year where I could find governmental statistics. This number is well below the total who died from either drowning or suffocation. In order to put this figure of 62 deaths into perspective, consider that automobile accidents killed 1360 of children (1-14) during the same time.

The link I tried to insert didn't work, but go here: CDC - Injury - WISQARS (Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System)
Then select: the Fatal Injury Data link.
Then: Leading Causes of Death
Then: Leading Causes of Death 1999-2008, National or Regional
Then accept the defaults for the search.
This should give you a chart where the data is available.

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Old 10-09-2011, 11:32 PM   #216
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Heres some information that illustrates the debate on whether one should carry a gun or not:

I am a retired airline pilot. Every six months I was required to practice and demonstrate in a flight simulator my ability to handle an engine failure at the most critical point in the takeoff.

I flew for about forty years and NEVER had an engine fail at the most critical point in the takeoff. Ive never even met a pilot who has experienced this emergency.

By requiring that I be prepared for this emergency are my company and the government paranoid, or just trying to ensure that I am skilled enough to deal with the situation?

Your answer to that question should relate to whether you think carrying a gun is preparation or paranoia.

Loren
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:28 AM   #217
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Around here you won't find a gun store where the clerks aren't armed with loaded weapons, you will find a few large sporting goods stores that sell handguns that aren't armed (the stores are owned by a Canadian firm).

Shoplifting is not the same as robbery!
Did you bother to check the link I provided?
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:40 PM   #218
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I like your rule better than mine, Stan.

I have always heard that the most important rule in a gunfight is: Have a gun.

-- Loren
I agree with the rule "Have a gun" but even more important than that. THE most important rule in a gun fight. WIN!! By whatever means necessary, win. There's no do overs.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:58 PM   #219
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Did you bother to check the link I provided?
Why? Does it pertain to gun stores in my area as I posted about?
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:15 PM   #220
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Why? Does it pertain to gun stores in my area as I posted about?
Based on your latest reply, you apparently didn't go to the link yet you replied like you had? You only asked if there had been a gun store robbery. You never specified it had to be in your area. I provided you with links to many reports of gun store robberies. All it took was one to earn a yes answer to your first question.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:22 PM   #221
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Statistics also show that if armed confrontation arises, the person carrying the weapon for defense is 18 times more likely to die with their own gun. -Paul R. Haller-
FABLE I: A gun in the home makes the home less safe.

Firearms are used three to five times more often to stop crimes than to commit them,1 and accidents with firearms are at an all-time recorded low.2 In spite of this, anti-firearm activists insist that the very act of keeping a firearm in the home puts family members at risk, often claiming that a gun in the home is "43 times" more likely to be used to kill a family member than an intruder, based upon a study by anti-gun researchers of firearm-related deaths in homes in King County (Seattle), Washington.3 Although Arthur Kellermann and Donald Reay originally warned that their study was of a single non-representative county and noted that they failed to consider protective uses of firearms that did not result in criminals being killed, anti-gun groups and activists use the "43 times" claim without explaining the limitations of the study or how the ratio was derived.

To produce the misleading ratio from the study, the only defensive or protective uses of firearms that were counted were those in which criminals were killed by would-be crime victims. This is the most serious of the study's flaws, since fatal shootings of criminals occur in only a fraction of 1% of protective firearm uses nationwide.4 Survey research by award-winning Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck, has shown that firearms are used for protection as many as 2.5 million times annually.5

It should come as no surprise that Kleck's findings are reflexively dismissed by "gun control" groups, but a leading anti-gun criminologist was honest enough to acknowledge their validity. "I am as strong a gun-control advocate as can be found among the criminologists in this country," wrote the late Marvin E. Wolfgang. "I would eliminate all guns from the civilian population and maybe even from the police. . . . What troubles me is the article by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear-cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years, namely, the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator. . . . I do not like their conclusions that having a gun can be useful, but I cannot fault their methodology."6

While the "43 times" claim is commonly used to suggest that murders and accidents are likely to occur with guns kept at home, suicides accounted for 37 of every 43 firearm-related deaths in the King County study. Nationwide, 58% of firearm-related deaths are suicides,7 a problem which is not solved by gun laws aimed at denying firearms to criminals. "Gun control" advocates would have the public believe that armed citizens often accidentally kill family members, mistaking them for criminals. But such incidents constitute less than 2% of fatal firearms accidents, or about one for every 90,000 defensive gun uses.8

In spite of the demonstrated flaws in his research, Kellermann continued to promote the idea that a gun is inherently dangerous to own. In 1993, he and a number of colleagues presented a study that claimed to show that a home with a gun was much more likely to experience a homicide.9

This study, too, was seriously flawed. Kellermann studied only homes where homicides had taken place--ignoring the millions of homes with firearms where no harm is done--and used a control group unrepresentative of American households. By looking only at homes where homicides had occurred and failing to control for more pertinent variables, such as prior criminal record or histories of violence, Kellermann et al. skewed the results of this study. After reviewing the study, Prof. Kleck noted that Kellermann's methodology is analogous to proving that since diabetics are much more likely to possess insulin than non-diabetics, possession of insulin is a risk factor for diabetes. Even Dr. Kellermann admitted, "It is possible that reverse causation accounted for some of the association we observed between gun ownership and homicide." Northwestern University Law Professor Daniel D. Polsby went further, writing, "Indeed the point is stronger than that: 'reverse causation' may account for most of the association between gun ownership and homicide. Kellermann's data simply do not allow one to draw any conclusion."10



NOTES:

FABLE I: A gun in the home makes the home less safe.

1. Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, N.Y.: Aldine de Gruyter, 1997, p. 160; FBI Uniform Crime Reports, Crime in the United States, annual reports.

2. National Center for Health Statistics and National Safety Council.

3. Arthur L. Kellermann and Donald T. Reay, "Protection or Peril?: An Analysis of Firearm-Related Deaths in the Home," New England Journal of Medicine, 1986, pp. 1557-1560.

4. Kleck, pp. 163-164.

5. Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense With a Gun," The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Fall 1995, p. 164.

6. Marvin E. Wolfgang, "Tribute to a View I Have Opposed," The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Fall 1995, pp. 188-192.

7. National Center for Health Statistics, 1999, the most recent year for which data have been published.

8. Gary Kleck, "Keeping, Carrying, and Shooting Guns for Self-Protection," Essays on Firearms and Violence, by Don B. Kates, Jr. and Gary Kleck, San Francisco: Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy, 1995, p. 208.

9. Kellermann, et al., "Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home," New England Journal of Medicine, 1993, p. 467.

10. Daniel D. Polsby, "The False Promise of Gun Control," The Atlantic Monthly, March 1994.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

For more facts go to this site
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:27 PM   #222
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Based on your latest reply, you apparently didn't go to the link yet you replied like you had? You only asked if there had been a gun store robbery. You never specified it had to be in your area. I provided you with links to many reports of gun store robberies. All it took was one to earn a yes answer to your first question.
Actually I did: I said "Around here you won't find a gun store where the clerks aren't armed with loaded weapons, you will find a few large sporting goods stores that sell handguns that aren't armed (the stores are owned by a Canadian firm)."
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:01 PM   #223
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Need information when traveling from USA thru Canada and back into USA with a weapon.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:09 PM   #224
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Need information when traveling from USA thru Canada and back into USA with a weapon.
If it's a handgun. No way. No how.
If you have Pepper Spray it better have a picture of a Bear on it or it's bye bye spray.
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