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Old 07-11-2016, 11:00 PM   #15
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Slightly off topic but still about screws. Have you noticed the screws backing out of drywall? If they can back out of drywall in a stationary box how do they perform in a box that shakes at 3.5?
Not sure I have noticed screws backing ot of drywall or what it would mean if it happened, or what you mean to say, if anything, by posing the question. Are you suggesting that staples wouldn't back out as easily as screws or what?

When you say "shakes at 3.5" is that a reference to the Richter scale?

Can you clairfy for me please?
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Old 07-12-2016, 04:59 AM   #16
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My 2004 Rambler must have been a rush job. Granted I just bought it used a couple of months ago so I expect a little wear and tear. With only 16,000 miles on it, I was/still am surprised at what I've fixed so far.

While fixing the plumbing in those nice little access holes, I can see some of the structure and how some of the framing was fastened. There is a combination of screws and staples. Like mentioned earlier, wood is split with the screws and staples are pulling out. The cabinets are of the poorest quality imaginable. The only piece of cabinetry I have not touched is the door where the fuses are. The kitchen sink cabinet had to be braced, refastened and secured. I added material and refastened all the shelves. The entertainment center was a joke. I ripped that out and had my carpentry buddy help me make a new one.

I prefer working with metal over wood. If I cut or drill a piece of metal bar stock, I can easily weld more on or fill and redrill. You cut a piece of wood wrong, you are out buying another piece. However, no matter if it's wood or metal, using the correct fastening technique and proper fastening hardware is absolute key to any successful build.

Using these proper fasteners, techniques, hardware, and tools cost money and take time. In some cases a lot of money and time. Like most industries, cut the corners where you can and hope for the best. This usually turns out to be an epic failure.

I only want to keep the RV for a couple of years until the children are grown (noticed "grown" and not "out of the house") and then upsize. If I was planning on keeping it I would definitely be gutting it and remodeling the proper way. Or what I think is proper anyways.
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Old 07-12-2016, 06:33 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
Slightly off topic but still about screws. Have you noticed the screws backing out of drywall? If they can back out of drywall in a stationary box how do they perform in a box that shakes at 3.5?
They don't back out, what probably happened is they weren't screwed in tight enough to draw the wall board to the crooked stud. After time the mud falls out of the hole or the board moves a little popping the screw head out. I put a ceiling fan in a new house and when I screwed the bracket to the ceiling box it pulled the sheet rock up 1/2" and popped about 10 screws right out of the sheet rock.
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Old 07-12-2016, 07:53 AM   #18
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Old saying still true...correct tools for the job.

We have a wood working mag arround here somewhere that we picked up just due to an article about joint strength.

A dowel added little strength to a joint and a standard butt joint was extremely sound.

Key was proper preparation and glue...Both we had been doing already.

We have made many things that have zero things other than glue holding them together and they hold up fine.

The mag tested joints until failure and when properly done the material fails and not the joint.

So what?

That requires time and lots of it with some skill.

Real easy to hold a part then staple it.

Screws are a lot more expensive to buy and way more expensive to use in time and skills.

Staples are instant.

If a part is not intended to be torn apart glue alone is just as good as everything else when properly done.

Often a fast setting but bot as strong glue may be used then stapled together to hold until set but joints where the edges may be seen likely not glues due to needing to clean up seepage.

With hidden areas where there is room one can place glue patches over connections.

Imagine a butt jointed "T" where a drawer support may butt against another part.

You can make the sides even with sandpaper or apron plane then first rub glue into the joint then glue a patch over the joint with proper glue and patch it will not give way...ever.
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:07 AM   #19
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IF you look I think you will find that with most modern glue joints the most common failures are either the glue holds and the wood breaks off or the glue never bonded due to dirt or the hot glue sitting open too long thus getting cold.
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Old 07-12-2016, 03:23 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by RussOnTheRoad View Post
Not sure I have noticed screws backing ot of drywall or what it would mean if it happened, or what you mean to say, if anything, by posing the question. Are you suggesting that staples wouldn't back out as easily as screws or what?

When you say "shakes at 3.5" is that a reference to the Richter scale?

Can you clairfy for me please?
Yes - I have noticed in many houses the drywall screws will back out of the wall popping the "mud" off. That is a house where the only movement is from heating and cooling - well maybe some movement during high winds.

If they can back out under those conditions then a coach that is in continual flex while moving down the road will likely have similar issues with screws working out. Yes the 3.5 is what is generally accepted for earthquake effect on the coach.
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Old 07-12-2016, 03:26 PM   #21
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They don't back out, what probably happened is they weren't screwed in tight enough to draw the wall board to the crooked stud. After time the mud falls out of the hole or the board moves a little popping the screw head out. I put a ceiling fan in a new house and when I screwed the bracket to the ceiling box it pulled the sheet rock up 1/2" and popped about 10 screws right out of the sheet rock.
Todays screw gun bits run the screw in to the proper depth. I really have not noticed the screws in the roof pulling out but certainly in the walls. Possibly you are right that there crooked studs are not letting the screw pull the drywall in. Or possibly the stud is flexing after the drywall is installed.
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Old 07-12-2016, 03:56 PM   #22
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I only want to keep the RV for a couple of years until the children are grown (noticed "grown" and not "out of the house") and then upsize.
This just struck me as funny. . . you'll 'upsize' when the kids are grown? That's the time to downsize.
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Old 07-12-2016, 04:29 PM   #23
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Google Jayco trailer builds in 7 hrs. Youtube video.
This will give you a look into why the new trailers
Are not what they used to be .
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:22 PM   #24
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Yes - I have noticed in many houses the drywall screws will back out of the wall popping the "mud" off. That is a house where the only movement is from heating and cooling - well maybe some movement during high winds.

If they can back out under those conditions then a coach that is in continual flex while moving down the road will likely have similar issues with screws working out. Yes the 3.5 is what is generally accepted for earthquake effect on the coach.
The only question I have here is that in houses glue is not used to join studs or wallboard. Wouldn't screws be less likely to back out where the surfaces they are joining are glued together.

Then there is the matter of the right screw for the job. In my mind thisis where the variables begin to get way too complicated to make any sort of valauble determinations.

What I'm really wondering about in all of this is would our rigs hold together better if screws were used instead of staples, and if proper predrilling was performed before screws were sunk.
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:58 AM   #25
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Proper screws...

We have some looks like drywall screws but also looks like self drillers.

They have a drill bit on the end.

Have other drywall type screws that have shearing edges in the tips to cut fibers.

We have some left over "plytanium" subfloor that is really string plywood and the above screws work really well while standard ones are difficult to use unless predrilled.

It all goes back to cost to manufacturer.

Watch the tv shows where they show cars being built and the rolls are built much different from a winnie.

Having installed the old school car phone in a rolls convert able way back in the day we can witness how they were built.

Staples often are there to secure and hold until glue cures if glued.

But many things built for low cost and of low weight have lightweight and or low cost materials built in such a manner to have minimum time to assemble to reduce cost.

That seldom involves precision processes required for long life durable wares.
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