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Old 10-22-2011, 06:24 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Bob (WA0MQE) View Post
Personally I think American is a rip-off if they do that just because of the balloon fest. That's no different the scabbing or price gouging. It should be illegal, that's double what their normal rates are. But if their are those that pay it then of course their going to charge that much.
If you don't like the increase for the Balloon Fest.

Then be sure to never go to Sturgis the first of Aug.
Nor Daytona in March or Oct.
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Old 10-22-2011, 08:41 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by LadyFitz... View Post
You contradicted yourself Don't think soin this post plus make invalid comparisons. You tried to compare your business to the hospitality industry by saying you have to pay your techniticians more on weekends. I don't know about where you live but in AZ, you can set up an employee's work week to include weekends. It's only overtime you have to pay for. Even holiday pay is not manditory if it falls on a scheduled work dayWould never consider asking my people to work a holiday with compensating them for the inconvenience, just not right.. I know the convenience store industry doersn't pay employees extra for weekends and I seriously doubt the hospitality industry does either.

My technicians work 6 and 7 days a week so all weekends are on OT. We have 80 offices across the US, China, Europe and Canada so labor laws become an issue. Our choice to pay OT on weekends and Holidays was to simplify payroll.

You said you don't mind paying extra for weekends or during special events then you later qualify that by saying you expect to receive increased services or increased quality of service for the extra paid Never said I expected increased services, I said I expected to get what I paid for. As an example If the CG is full I don't expect to have to deal with an interruption of services, i.e. water, electricity overflowing dumpsters. If they charge extra for the event then I expect them keep up with the demand generated by a full CG. Just like I would if I stayed at a motel. . I've yet to stay anywhere that charged more for weekends and even more during special events and get more or better services. If anything, the opposite has been true! Usually, the staff was overworked because the management didn't increase the number employees working resulting in shoddy work or the employees getting behind in their work.

As far as the increased rates during special events not being price gouging goes, the last time the Phoenix area hosted the Superbowl, motels that normally charge $50 or less per night were getting over $200 a night, the amount going up the closer one got to the stadium. Better accomodations were charging an even higher percentage markup. Please don't tell me you don't think that is price gouging! I don't see that as gouging, supply vs. demandAnd what about the traveling business people who had to travel to the area and couldn't have cared less about the game (believe it or not, there are people who don't care about sports)?I am a business traveler, I do my best to avoid traveling to a city hosting a major event for a meeting. Not just becuase of increased hotel costs, airports will be a nightmare, traffic will be terrible, rental cars and taxi's will be all gone.
Businesses have the right to charge their price. The consumer has the right to choose to pay or not pay the going price. Capitalism (don't confuse capitalism with greed and criminal activities like those infecting some businesses today) built this country. Profit motivated entrepreneurs to build a better mouse trap.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:18 PM   #31
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Remember that credit card companies charge the buisness 2 to 5% for every card transaction. So expect from now on to pay extra for the convience of not carrying cash. I have no problem with the add ons, as long as they are published. A lot of cg charge for more than 2 people, and they charge a minimal fee for visitors.

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Old 10-22-2011, 09:23 PM   #32
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I am a little confused. Are the CG charging for extras and forcing you to take the extras. Or are you allowed to decline the extra service? If they force you to take the extra service that does not seem right. If you can refuse the service without being charged then that would be OK.
As far as charging extra for using a CC. Unless they have changed their policies recently the CC companies in the past have not allowed anyone to charge extra for using their card. You would have to complain to the CC company and see if it would change anything. I think the gas companies get around the rule by posting a high regular price and offering a discount for paying cash (I know splitting hairs but it is their game, we just play it)

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Old 10-22-2011, 09:26 PM   #33
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We use to stay at a yogi bear CG until they started charging extra for family over 4 members. It was $10.00 per night per person. My one daughter at the time was just a few months old. They didn't care it was $10.00 a night for her as well. They got us for $60.00 that weekend. They also charged for every craft or event for the kids typically 2-3 bucks. We never went back!!

We have found a CG we LOVE that only charges 30.00 night FULL hook-up they don't care we bring 8 of us. They do have a $2.00 fee if you run A/C but it is clearly posted on there web site. They also only take cash or check NO CC's. They have a great grand old opry show every Saturday night FREE to CG folks. They also do a HEE-Haw show once a year which is a HOOT to watch.

We just finished Halloween weekend out there the kids had a blast. Costume parade they had 9 table set up with differant crafts for the kids and they even get a FREE photo sitting on hay bale in front of haunted house backdrop. I forgot they also had blowup bouncers for the kids to use for 2 1/2 hours also FREE. Aslo either a hay rack ride thru CG or a ride down into SPOOK HOLLER with all kinds of spooky and creepy things. This year they gave the ticket to you at check in again FREE .I sound like an AD but this is just my personal opion.

I agree with POST ALL the FEE's up front. That is how we found the CG we stayed at in TX we compared them online and even called a couple to confirm what was on the web site.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:47 PM   #34
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You've got my attn. Anyone have any good KOA receipts with extraneous charges we can post?
I've got a drawer full of KOA receipts and not one of them has extra charges or any hidden charges. We've stayed in KOA's in Montana, Idaho, Arizona, Utah and Nevada so I guess I'm just one of the lucky ones that stay in the right places. The last KOA we stayed at in Filmore, UT had an ice cream social with all sorts of goodies and coke, all for free. The park was 80% filled with snow birds.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:48 PM   #35
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Businesses have the right to charge their price. The consumer has the right to choose to pay or not pay the going price. Capitalism (don't confuse capitalism with greed and criminal activities like those infecting some businesses today) built this country. Profit motivated entrepreneurs to build a better mouse trap.
How you run your business has nothing to do with how the hospitality business is run. I doubt you pay your techs minimum wage without any benefits, either. I'm not defending them. I agree not paying extra for holidays isn't right but that doesn't change reality.

You again made a poor analogy when you tried to justify increased charges for having a full campground. Do you really believe they do not have full campgrounds at any other time? And do they increase their rates when they do have full campgrounds? When more services are needed due to the fuller campground, such as extra trash pickup, there are more people there paying rent to pay for the extra service without having to jack the rate.

Actually, your argument would make far more sense for situations when there are fewer campers in the campground since there would be fewer people to pay for the basic services that will still have to be performed no matter how many people are there.

Not all business travelers have the option of rescheduling to avoid large events at their destination.

Supply and demand is one thing. Jacking prices to outrageous levels to take advantage of people is taking supply and demand to an obscene level.

I have no problem with capitalism. What is occurring when CGs, hotels, etc. jack their rates during special events IS greed.

Here is another example. What about fulltimers who stay in a campground year round or for an entire season then get hit with a higher rate for a weekend or two just because a special event happens in town? The services those campers need doesn't change. That would certainly drive me away.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:56 PM   #36
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...I think the gas companies get around the rule by posting a high regular price and offering a discount for paying cash (I know splitting hairs but it is their game, we just play it)

Tony G.
I don't play that game. If a business charges different prices for cash and credit/debit purchases (or charge a fee for using plastic), I don't do business with them. I will do businesses that only charge for debit but not for credit since all I have to do is use my debit card as a credit card.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:58 PM   #37
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I am a little confused. Are the CG charging for extras and forcing you to take the extras. Or are you allowed to decline the extra service? If they force you to take the extra service that does not seem right. If you can refuse the service without being charged then that would be OK.
As far as charging extra for using a CC. Unless they have changed their policies recently the CC companies in the past have not allowed anyone to charge extra for using their card. You would have to complain to the CC company and see if it would change anything. I think the gas companies get around the rule by posting a high regular price and offering a discount for paying cash (I know splitting hairs but it is their game, we just play it)

Tony G.
Yes, exactly. Harper's Ferry KOA is a great example. We called and got a quote for a night. When we got there, there was an extra fee for each person to have a wrist band to use their amusement facilities. There was no opportunity to decline to pay for the wrist band and not use the amusements. As Lady Fitz suggests, by the time you are there, you have already committed to the travel and it more than likely too late to go on down the road that evening. Had we known about the wrist band scam, we would have elected to stay somewhere else that evening. We were traveling, it was simply a one night overnight for us and we had no intention of playing miniature golf or anything else.

As I said, I have no problems with the wrist band charges but it isn't optional, it should be part of the quoted price for per night, not something that is sprung on you at check in. The same is true for CC. Charge whatever you wish but don't spring it on me at the last minute. The fuel stops with a cash price are doing it correctly in my book. I know that I'm going to pay a delta per gallon if I don't pay cash. I can make my decisions from there.
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:07 PM   #38
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Most of these places are upfront about the fees. Just because they dont appear in whatever guide you happen to be looking at doesnt negate that. If you go to the cg website or call them, Im sure they will tell you what all the fees are. Guides are good for finding unknown campgrounds, but as far as ammenities and fees I trust guides as far as I can throw them. Just my $0.02.
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:16 PM   #39
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I guess that's why so many use Walmart* Etc. No hidden charges!
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:21 PM   #40
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After reading all these posts, I will now, when I call ahead, ask about any extra fees. Simple solution.

I recently read a long story, which I won't go into, that ended like this:

"I'm old, and I don't like being old, so I can get P.O.'d pretty easy."
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Old 10-22-2011, 11:30 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by LadyFitz... View Post
How you run your business has nothing to do with how the hospitality business is run. I doubt you pay your techs minimum wage without any benefits, either. I'm not defending them. I agree not paying extra for holidays isn't right but that doesn't change reality.

You again made a poor analogy (I respectfully disagree, it would appear you have a poor (your word not mine) understanding of supply and demand) when you tried to justify increased charges for having a full campground. Do you really believe they do not have full campgrounds at any other time? And do they increase their rates when they do have full campgrounds?Yes they do in some areas, thats the difference in season vs. off season rates, again supply and demand When more services are needed due to the fuller campground, such as extra trash pickup, there are more people there paying rent to pay for the extra service without having to jack the rate.

Actually, your argument would make far more sense Not true. for situations when there are fewer campers in the campground since there would be fewer people to pay for the basic services that will still have to be performed no matter how many people are there.When CG are less than full it indicates a down turn in demand, therefore to attract customers and generate the revenue needed to keep the doors open they must reduce price. The only time price can be safely raised is when demand out paces supply. Again the consumer has the right to pay or not pay.

Not all business travelers have the option of rescheduling to avoid large events at their destination. Been there, some days you're the bug and somedays you're the windshield

Supply and demand is one thing. Jacking prices to outrageous levels to take advantage of people is taking supply and demand to an obscene level. People can only be taken advantage of in this situation if they permit/allow it. If the prices are too high, select another CG. Select another weekend, etc... The choice is the consumers to make.

I have no problem with capitalism. What is occurring when CGs, hotels, etc. jack their rates during special events IS greed. While contemplating the purchase of small CG and RV repair business, I have been looking at their books believe me their operating principle is anything but greed, closer to survival.

Here is another example. What about fulltimers who stay in a campground year round or for an entire season then get hit with a higher rate for a weekend or two just because a special event happens in town? As far as full timers caught up in the event type weekends, I would suggest they not be charged the higher rate as a thank you for their continued businessThe services those campers need doesn't change. That would certainly drive me away.
In today's market many small businesses operate on thin margins. Ala carte add ons and event pricing does not lead to obscene profits they simply provide the business an opportunity to recover lost margin and to prepare for the slow times.

I agree all businesses should fully disclose the add ons. If they offer an a la carte menu so much the better. I don't use CG showers, Wifi, TV, etc... If I have an option not to pay for those, I like that. I do take advantage of pull throughs, fire rings, firewood, FHUs with 50 amp. I don't mind paying for those.

At the end of the day it all boils down to, they state a price for their services and I make a decision as to whether or not I want to pay that price.
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Old 10-22-2011, 11:40 PM   #42
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These Hidden Charges are the reason I have 6 6v. battery's 3 100w solar panels and a 2000w inverter.

Campgrounds we don't need no stinking campgrounds !!!!!




If We Can't Haul It....You Don't Need It ! Motor-T
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