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Old 02-12-2012, 11:44 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ottffss View Post
And then those simple, elegant, and accurate answers are corrupted and misguided by the inevitable cutesie and/or inaccurate posts that then require nauseatingly detailed further explanation just to set the thread back on the elegantly simple answers path originally posted.... Sheesh....

You are right! Seriously! I just had to laugh because I saw it coming and so did the other poster! And I'd bet you did too!

If I offended you, I apologize.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:02 PM   #30
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ottffss, its been far too many years since college, and I've forgotten far to much to begin to speak in the terms you use, but I do believe my answer was nonetheless correct based on simple observation.

I full-time in an RV Resort in SoCal where our typical night-time lows are mid 40s. About 6 weeks ago we had the coldest night of the year when our electronic min/max thermometers read somewhere between 35 and 36. Since this was the coldest it had been all season, it should be safe to say that the ground temperature was above freezing. It rained the previous day so there were puddles in the paved road and gutters of the resort. I was surprised at how much ice there was on those puddles the next morning, and frost on the golf greens as well.

Now none of the thermometers (mine and those of neighbors) were certified and they weren't positioned right by the puddles, so this was not a scientifically rigorous experiment. But it's a little hard to believe that all our thermometers were off in the same way.

So, while it's certainly possible that my observations are mistaken, I do believe it's far more likely that the answer to the OP's question is that water (in puddles) can freeze when air temperature is above 32, and that wind aided evaporative cooling, at least in part, explains it.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:39 PM   #31
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...If I offended you, I apologize.
Not at all!!!!

Sure as the sun rises, "it" was coming in full force, it only takes a little time. Once in a while some really funny posts are made - but they don't sidetrack/confuse. Sometimes interesting subtleties arise, however I often feel for an OP (in generic terms) in trying to sort it all out. After all, an OP asked the Q in the first place and may not be in a position to do so.

It's all good!!!
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:17 PM   #32
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Well, rather than a long engineering explanation that offends some...the short answer is NO.

Ken
You know Ken.. I studied Science and Engineering when I was in College, even if I only went for 2 years.

And all I can say is: You are correct.
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:30 PM   #33
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Yes it will freeze, no it will NOT freeze. One must understand the thermodynamics of the air surrounding the vessal holding the water. Is the correct answer yes or no. To fully comprehend that consider what Yes or no actually mean. is Yes an afirmative answer or does it have an another meaning. then NO might not be a negitive but an acroynom for maybe. Now take elevation into consideration above or below sea level. How high above or how deep is this sh*t? It is time to get out a new rectal thermoter and test the atrosphere for humity. If one is in doubt about the ability of water to freeze the answwer is simply MOVE! Are we having fun now?
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:37 PM   #34
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I recall an explanation of the difference between an engineer and a scientist. The engineer would say that 2 is equal to 1 for small values of 2.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:24 PM   #35
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It also affects the tv ratings of the weather-guessers. They just love to toss out horrific sounding low temps, along with dire warnings about people, pets and plants. Without wind chill factor, they might have to find a real job.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:40 PM   #36
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I recall an explanation of the difference between an engineer and a scientist. The engineer would say that 2 is equal to 1 for small values of 2.
And an entire science and industry about 1 and 0.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:41 PM   #37
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Heat rise?

So, who's going to explain the effect of heat rise caused by the friction of the air (wind) on the container of the water?

Wouldn't the thermal conduction of that heat rise to the water in the container actually make the water warmer than the air?

Sometime, things aren't as simple as they seem!

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Old 02-13-2012, 01:46 PM   #38
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It also affects the tv ratings of the weather-guessers. They just love to toss out horrific sounding low temps, along with dire warnings about people, pets and plants.
Hi Gary,

I've heard one of the local TV station weather guys declare, on three separate occassions, "This is the STORM OF THE CENTURY!"

I'm not THAT old, yet!

Take care,
Stu
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:24 PM   #39
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We need more simple answers like those posted above.

I cringe at a question like the OP asked. It's usually followed by at least one response from some retired and bored engineer presenting his doctoral thesis on thermodynamics, then eventually argued by some retired professor until the thread no longer resembles the original question.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:27 PM   #40
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This tired , but not bored engineer uses the theory that if the temperature is going to go below 32 degrees, it is best to disconnect and drain the water hose than to have to buy a new hose.
Actually, I use split foam pool noodles to protect my hose, but still disconnect and drain it when the temperature will get below about 25.
split foam pool noodles....a GREAT idea! And cheap too!

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