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Old 04-20-2016, 07:07 PM   #71
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I manage an RV park in Austin, Tx with 82 full time residents and 16 nightly, weekly sites. Have been living in the park in an RV for 21 years. When we travel we have a MH that we use, not the trailer we live in. I get about 20 calls per day looking for a monthly site. Rent and home ownership in Austin is expensive and folks have discovered living in an RV is much cheaper. Have to turn them all down as no one leaves here. We are not homeless, just figured a better way of living for us.
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:09 PM   #72
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I am confused how people who live in a RV are considered or referred to as homeless. Please help me understand. I can see they could be considered no fixed address if they moved quite often, lived on the streets or WalMarts. But homeless??

I have seen areas where an RV would be an upgrade from the housing conditions people live in. We over nighted in one RV park where some of the units would have fallen apart if someone attempted to move them. But the people were friendly and happy.

Frankly there are some advantages to living in an RV. Takes very little time to do house cleaning, no grass to mow or snow to shovel. What is the downside?
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:41 PM   #73
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I am confused how people who live in a RV are considered or referred to as homeless. Please help me understand. I can see they could be considered no fixed address if they moved quite often, lived on the streets or WalMarts. But homeless??

I have seen areas where an RV would be an upgrade from the housing conditions people live in. We over nighted in one RV park where some of the units would have fallen apart if someone attempted to move them. But the people were friendly and happy.

Frankly there are some advantages to living in an RV. Takes very little time to do house cleaning, no grass to mow or snow to shovel. What is the downside?
The issue being discussed is that there are people living in RVs on residential streets.

In the article in the original post; it mentions that some may be doing so because the people living in the RVs can not afford to rent or own a home.

It isn't about how you define 'homeless'. Nor are we discussing the benefits of living in a RV versus a fixed abode.
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:58 PM   #74
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I'm sure there are possibly legal, political, social, slang, and other ways to define homeless. I am, as far as USHUD seems to be concerned, homeless, as in I don't live in a stick and brick home. And frankly I don't want to.

So I make sure that anyone I talk to about the issue understands that I have chosen to be homeless in this regard, because I could make that choice before I was forced into it.

I know about a half dozen folks right now that were forced into it, not any fault of their own, one a close friend. I haven't been able to track him down in three weeks now and I'm beginning to fear the worst. He was forced out of his home of the last five years with a more than double rent increase and no vacancies anywhere that he could afford. Seventy years old with a bad heart and little hope. I hope I can find him alive.

There are others that have been talked about that simply want to live off the radar and/or take all advantage of anything they can get. I knew one person like that, and it was terrible what he could get while others I knew got nothing to help them.

Some of the worst people I've ever heard of take advantage of the kindness of others to the detriment of those truly in need.

I hope the Seattle RV camp model works out well over the long term. My friend Wade could take advantage of that in his little tiny trailer that he got last year and the old beater but smooth running truck I gave him to pull it.

This issue hits pretty close to home with me right now. People can literally live or die over being forced out of housing by insane rents and poor jobs.
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Old 04-21-2016, 01:18 PM   #75
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Rv is a poor substitute for affordable housing. Energy use light duty appliances etc . That said I believe homeless in many cases is not just out of work can't find work.ive had some experience working with the community There is a reason and mental illness ,alcohol and largely drug use is rampant and most of those folks. Living in a Rv on the streets with those conditions is not productive. Even the addicts if honest will tell you crime is how they support themselves.And of course effects everyone by restrictive rules ( maybe) even the ones who choose the Rv lifestyle by choice not as a perceived last resort.residents of the homes in those streets won't put up with it for long. The difference from appearance of a person traveling and just stoping for the night and one up to " trouble" may or may not be obvious so all pay the price. The solution to homeless is much deeper than just jobs. It's being able to do the job and then choose a aproprate "residence"
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Old 04-21-2016, 01:22 PM   #76
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I have given away a class 'A' and a TT that were no longer "good enough" for me. In both cases the folks I gave them to were happy to get them.
All too often the people that really need get nothing, while the people that claim to be working on their behalf take advantage. It's very difficult for an individual to feel like they can make a difference. We need more cities to step up and provide a method to actually improve the lives of people that can't do it on their own. Relying on private industry or organized charities is like letting the fox guard the hen house.
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Old 04-21-2016, 04:48 PM   #77
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Hmm, folks living in RVs are homeless?
Guess all you full-timers out there are considered "homeless".
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Old 04-21-2016, 04:50 PM   #78
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Fine with me.
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:46 PM   #79
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I drove by one of Seattle's new 'Homeless RV Parks" today, it's in the Interbay industrial area, between the BNSF Balmer Yard, where they assemble trains 24 hours a a day, and the Armory motor pool / helicopter landing area, not a quiet place by any means.
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Old 04-22-2016, 10:02 AM   #80
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I agree that there is much more to the real meaning of 'homeless' than if you have a permanent address with a mailbox in the ground.

I also agree that those who say it only about jobs or housing prices are not looking at the true causes or the honest issues. While bad job markets and high housing prices make life harder for all, there is still a great divide between those who make a go of it and those who give up.

I think it is pretty obvious that there is a difference between someone living in a coach worth tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars and those who are truly homeless living in a hand me down old RV.

I also think that it is a good thing for a community to do to try to make a space for those who have little, but are trying to live, like in the Seattle example offered. I entirely disagree that this is a government responsibility to make 'homeless RV camps' and that the government can somehow do a better job than private organizations.

I have seen almost no examples of where a government can do a better job than a private concern at anything. Some things, like roads or armies, they do okay, but most every other thing all they do is waste money and do a weaker job. Still, there are places where private charities do not provide a particular service, so a government (local or state) may step up.

As far as thievery in that someone will take resources that are designated for those in need, there is no greater place to steal from than the government. Lots of people go to Washington DC as representatives of the people, but only Millionaires come back. If a person were to try to steal that much money for so long from private industry, they would be unsuccessful, or in jail. The same is true on more local basis with different numbers.

Still, I believe the topic of this thread, or the concept of it is that there are people with little means living in unattractive looking RVs on residential streets. I believe that what ever the reason, very few streets and especially residential ones, can effectively withstand RVs being parked along the curb for any reason. I live on a small cul-de-sak in Massachusetts, and if I had my MH on the street, it would make a big impact. Not a good impact.

If someone else, who did not live on the street were to park theirs here, I would not like it, (and I own an RV) and the neighbors would like it even less.

Many years ago, when I had a pop up camper parked in the back yard, and a neighbor and friend 5 houses away had her mother come to visit for several weeks in her MH, she felt she had a dilemma. (It did not fit on her property, off the street) She did not know what to do with the MH. I volunteered my yard, and she actually parked it on a side yard, and they were all tickled pink. At that time, I was able to provide electricity and water in that location, and it worked out for all, including getting that RV off the street.

Since then, I have purchased larger and larger RVs and the Class C and now the Class A, and built a pole barn in the back yard and made more facilities which would make it easier to provide for a guest of that sort.

Bottom line is that this woman who lived in that RV was not homeless, just visiting. And her home was mobile, but it existed. And I was lucky enough to have the facility to be able to provide for her to not need to park on the street. I was able to provide for this facility not because of my job or lack of it, but because of decisions I made long ago of how I wanted to live at that time.

I am considering changing my living style. I have had some major changes in my life, and this current 10 room house, 4 bedrooms, 3 baths and the like on the cul-de-sak is too much for just me and the dog.

If I decide to move out to my MH, and maybe even sell all else, would not make me homeless. It would just make my home foundation less. Or at least concrete foundation less...
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Old 04-22-2016, 10:40 AM   #81
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Having worked for the last 16 years in senior management at a nonprofit that specializes in part in homelessness & housing issues, I can say that the best answers in my experience are found in public - private partnerships. The private / charitable sector cannot handle the issue alone, and government cooperation, coordination & support is vital. Our particular org's revenue streams range from 1/3 to 1/2 government funding, with the remainder coming from charitable giving and earned income. None of the funding we receive comes easy, and we are held accountable in multiple ways (as we should be). The government funding is vital, but trust me when I say that it is no free lunch.

Like all systems (governmental & otherwise) efforts to address homelessness are not perfect. We simply work to maximize efficiency and effective outcomes and minimize waste and abuse. In the end, our goal is to move folks from crisis back to permanent housing in a sustainable way, as quickly as possible.
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Old 04-22-2016, 04:54 PM   #82
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I also agree that those who say it only about jobs or housing prices are not looking at the true causes or the honest issues. While bad job markets and high housing prices make life harder for all, there is still a great divide between those who make a go of it and those who give up.
This sounds like the "bootstrap" theory -- that is, if the homeless did not "give up", then they wouldn't be homeless.

If that's what you're saying, then I think you're wrong.

Many poor people are at risk of homelessness because they cannot find affordable housing. Households in poverty pay more than 50% of their income on housing. These poor haven't given up. They simply can't afford housing.

Also, the homeless population is diverse. While most homeless are individuals, about 9% are veterans and about 8% are kids on their own. Also, a large portion of homeless have disabilities.

Finally, since 2013 overall homelessness has gone down, and chronic homelessness has decreased dramatically. Federal funding to address homelessness is at an all-time high (4.5 billion for 2015).

Nevertheless, the number of people in poverty (4.8 million) and the poverty rate (15.8%) remains steady.

Above info from http://www.endhomelessness.org/page/...NAL_online.pdf
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Old 04-22-2016, 08:05 PM   #83
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The bootstrap theory is valid. It works. It is the only thing that does work.

Also, the homeless population is diverse. While most homeless are individuals, about 9% are veterans and about 8% are kids on their own. Also, a large portion of homeless have disabilities.

If these stats are accurate, than addressing homelessness will not solve the problem. As with most issues, you must address the reason people become homeless or you will not resolve the issue.

Again, a person who chooses to live in a motor coach, used, valued at $50,000 or $100,000 is hardly in the same category as a disabled veteran living in his old van.

I personally am a disabled veteran, but it has not made me homeless. There are far more factors at play. I personally know of many situations where brothers or cousins who grew up in near identical situations have matured into very different people with different means. I know brothers who one has a net worth making him comfortable, and the other is homeless (by some standards) or barely getting by... There are all kinds of reasons why one may pull themselves up by their bootstraps and another may not be able to do this.

My comment is that much of this, not all, but much of it, comes from the internal situation of that homeless person, not the external situation of rents or jobs.

And Techwriter, the document you linked to, in it's very opening paragraph on page 3, lists homeless people as those who sleep outside, or in transitional housing programs or shelters. It does not include people who live in their own RVs, the topic of this thread. The fact that it is a self serving document that I believe is published for an ulterior motive and is not objective does not matter. That very first paragraph states that it is not talking about the topic of this thread.

Still, this thread was not about the cause of homelessness. It was asking if homeless living in RVs in parking lots impacts others who may also be living in RVs. My answer is yes, it does.
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Old 04-23-2016, 12:21 AM   #84
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The problem I see with the "Bootstrap Theory" and homeless folks is that since a large part of the homeless population has myriad problems that are out of their control (mental illness, disability, etc.) then how can one that is simply unable to pull themselves out just do so?

If you remove the chronically mentally ill and disabled from the population, and the folks that remain are truly mobile, meaning they can afford to relocate to where the jobs are, then bootstrap theory could be applied.

But then what theory do you apply to those that cannot, physically and/or mentally pull themselves out of the state they are in?

Applying a theory (really should be called a hypothesis BTW) that seems to me to require a *set* of abilities and means to prevent or reverse a condition such as homelessness to those most likely to not possess those skills and means to try to prove a point is, at best, not scientific or specific to only one place.

Take the Portland OR area. If someone is disabled and cannot work, and gets $1100/month SSI payment tries to rent a 1BR apartment that has advertised rent of $950/month, they will have $150 left after rent for all other living expenses. The example of my friend Wade is that he cannot work due to health and disability, but the rent on his home, that he has lived in for five years, was nearly doubled, from $600 to $1100. He is 72, and his SS check is $860. Where are the bootstraps he should use to pull himself out of losing his home when all advertised rents for a one bedroom apartment are $800+/month and Section 8 housing has a waiting list 13 months long min.? I need to tell him where those bootstraps are right away so he can get a place to live.

BTW, he has a $100 RV that doesn't have a sink, sewage tanks or toilet. No $1-Whatever Thousand RV for him in the cards.
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