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Old 11-05-2011, 05:48 PM   #15
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There are basically 3 kinds of Refrigeration units suitable for RV use (and a few more that are not)

The traditional RV type fridge is an ammonia cycle heat driven type. THIS needs to be kept "near level" all the time.. Just now near depends on many things, but if you are like 5 degrees off. You should not run it, Not on Electric, Not on Propane. at least not for long (While you are in Wall-Mart re-stocking is ok)

The big advantage of these is the LP option... Since from time to time electricity is at a premimum.

The standard "Residential" is a compressor driven unit.. This can be operated level, unlevel, on it's side, upside down, (Depending on how well the compressor is mounted) since the "reactions" inside the unit are motor driven,, it more or less does not care (Within the limit of the motor mounts) Oh, and the ice maker. The problem with these is power consumption.. Even a fairly small one will need 100 watts running and perhaps as many as 500 watts starting (Actually I do not know the starting power.. I just know 450 is NOT enough)

The third type is fairly new.. This is a high efficiency compressor unit.. Both Dometic and Norcold sell these.. I have a chest freezer that uses this technology. They tend to be dual power 120vac/12vdc, but I run mine on 12vdc nearly all the time.

So, how good is that new style compressor?

Well... A pair of 1156 lamps draws around 52 watts.

With the door closed... these puppies run less than 40 and do not use all that much starting either. (With the door open power consumption nearly doubles.. Due to the light.)
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:07 PM   #16
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When I found the frig warm the next day I noticed the "Check" light was lit, which I think was the result of it being out of level for 24 hours. When I started the generator and recycled the power to off and then back to on it picked up right away on the gen power and started cooling again.
"Check Light" means the flame went out. Sometimes wind will do it when driving down the road.

I don't think you will find a bigger size RV refrigerator that will run on 12V.
The ones that are made to run on 12V will only keep the present temp. They don't have enough AMP's(heat) to cool it much. If you do find one. You probably will have to increase your battery bank to keep it running many hours.
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:52 PM   #17
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See this link Understanding Your RV Refrigerator on how an absorption refer works. This is a good primer on the RV refer.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:03 PM   #18
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Hi Gary,
The basement frig/freezer is a Whynter Model: FM-85G that I put in the basement on a slide still works when the kitchen frig/freezer has stopped. That tells me it is possible to maintain a working compressor when out of level. The Whynter runs on 110v/12v with auto switching between the two.

John
Your Whynter is a residential style cooling compressor and your coach refer/freezer is an absorption style cooling system. The Whynter would not care about level like an absorption refer that uses a boiler would. So comparing your the Whynter to the coach refer is not a fair comparison. The Whynter will run out of level far beyond the tolerance of the coach refer.

3 degrees is the number most often used to describe level in terms of your coach refer/freezer. If the coach feels level it's with in 3 degrees.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:12 PM   #19
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Ditto with Dan

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I must agree with TAZ, I have only seen the check light come on my refrig when I ran out of propane or forgot to turn on the propane & the 110 shore power failed or was not hooked up.

Dunno if this helps, but our fridge and furnace stopped working for lack of propane; but, we were able to fry eggs on the cooktop for three days' breakfasts. In other words, the fridge might quit before you show Empty, on the propane gage.

(No problem with fridge or furnace, since we had a full hookup.)
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:28 PM   #20
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We have a 2002 DSDP 4090. Have NEVER had a problem like you describe even when stored beside the house and more than a foot out of level. The only problem I had was the ammonia leak from corrosion. I replaced the cooling unit with the Amish built one from RV Cooling Warehouse.
In fact it's in the side yard now and has been for over a month since the last trip out, unlevel and all and still no problems. Been storing it that way for over 9 years now and it's never gone out although I keep it on electric all the time.
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:05 PM   #21
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See this link Understanding Your RV Refrigerator on how an absorption refer works. This is a good primer on the RV refer.
I just read the info on your link,,, Very informative !!! Thankyou !!!!
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:39 PM   #22
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I'm loading up my 39 foot DSDP out on the street in front of my house and I guess because it is unlevel my frig quit working. I knew I should have left the generator on 24/7 while in this process, but I didn't and now I've lost ALL the food in the unit. Some stuff is safe in the basement freezer because it works on 12V as well as 110v. But, to say I'm dissatisfied with my frig would be an understatement.

So, guys, what's the answer? Is there a trick to keeping it running in an unlevel condition? Should I buy a newer generation frig that works on AC/DC/LP? Do any of you have one of those newer units? Are they more reliable?

I'm a new full-timer who is about to launch within days and I've worked hard to make this motorhome as suitable as possible to my needs as a full-timer. All I can see that is lacking is the frig. It's pitiful.

Best,

John
You dont say wether you plugged your coach in when you got it home, or if you switched to propane ?
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Old 11-06-2011, 09:54 AM   #23
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Hi Gary,

The coach was pretty level to begin with, but then the front bags deflated and it kneeled down on the front like a camel getting a drink of water. Even then I don't know how "tilted" it was. Living in the Ozark Mountains of NW Arkansas everything is out of level by half a bubble including my ex-wife. The frig is a Dometic. When I found the frig warm the next day I noticed the "Check" light was lit, which I think was the result of it being out of level for 24 hours. When I started the generator and recycled the power to off and then back to on it picked up right away on the gen power and started cooling again.

The frustration factor in this incident is huge. I can't live full-time in a motorhome that commits these kinds of crimes against my wallet. I'm thinking the newest generation 3-way power (110v/12v/LP) refrigerators might be more tolerant of running out of level. The basement frig/freezer is a Whynter Model: FM-85G that I put in the basement on a slide still works when the kitchen frig/freezer has stopped. That tells me it is possible to maintain a working compressor when out of level. The Whynter runs on 110v/12v with auto switching between the two.

My frig is definitely the weak link in this chain. Aren't there any that will run out of level? I've priced new Dometics and it would appear their 3 way power frigs in my size run about $1,500 at Camping World. But, it would be really worth it if I didn't have to endure these kinds of hassles in the future.

John
John, the weak link here is your failure to familiarize yourself with your coach's systems prior to using it. If you're preparing to go full time with it, well, shame on you!

The Dometic frig. has a reputation for being pretty reliable - but it can't do everything for you. When the "check" light came on, it had basically shut itself down - telling you that with the fact that light was on. The fact it started cooling again on 110v would tell most it hasn't failed or quit totally at all. In fact, there's a very good chance there's nothing wrong with it? If the coach hasn't been used in a while, it's not unusual to have to cycle the "gas" funtion a couple of times to get it to light. This tendency disappears totally after the "gas" function has been used a couple of times.

To prevent further equipment "hassles", you need to sit down and start reading and/or asking questions about ANY system you don't fully understand. To try and continue using the coach as you plan without doing that is an invitation to a really bad motorhoming exeperience. This incident may be just the tip of the iceburg/first of many more as you continue learning the hard way? Not trying to put you down, just sayin....
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:57 PM   #24
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I always get my refrigerator within a 1/2 bubble but it is a 2000 National Sea Breeze fifth wheel do you think the 2000 I have is more lenient with the leveling? thanks ED
Yes, I do, but your fridge owner manual will give you the leveling specs. Most of them are 3 degrees side-to-side and 6 degrees front-to-back. Since side-side is usually aligned fore & aft in the RV, that is the one to be most concerned about.
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:09 PM   #25
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The frustration factor in this incident is huge. I can't live full-time in a motorhome that commits these kinds of crimes against my wallet. I'm thinking the newest generation 3-way power (110v/12v/LP) refrigerators might be more tolerant of running out of level. The basement frig/freezer is a Whynter Model: FM-85G that I put in the basement on a slide still works when the kitchen frig/freezer has stopped. That tells me it is possible to maintain a working compressor when out of level. The Whynter runs on 110v/12v with auto switching between the two.

My frig is definitely the weak link in this chain. Aren't there any that will run out of level? I've priced new Dometics and it would appear their 3 way power frigs in my size run about $1,500 at Camping World. But, it would be really worth it if I didn't have to endure these kinds of hassles in the future.

John
As others have said, a compressor driven fridge is not sensitive to leveling at all. The compressor pumps the coolant as needed, so gravity flow is not an issue. You can install a compressor driven fridge in place of your Dometic if you like - just find a residential fridge that fits in the available place, then add an inverter to power it and enough batteries to handle whatever time you spend without external power. Quite a few people have done this, and many new mid-to-high end coaches come this way. However, that just substitutes potential electrical power problems for leveling or propane power problems.

But LET ME REPEAT! Leveling was not your problem. You fridge's propane burner shut off for some reason, not yet known. That's what the check light is telling you.
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Old 11-06-2011, 10:35 PM   #26
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BUT--

Last summer we were park hosting in Missouri when we had a camper in a Pickup camber who had camped in his brother's yard which was really UN-level. Not through brilliance, but doe to luck he turned it off for three days, then his wife turned it back on---It ran like a champ.

I'd rather be lucky than good any old day!
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:03 AM   #27
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See this link Understanding Your RV Refrigerator on how an absorption refer works. This is a good primer on the RV refer.
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I just read the info on your link,,, Very informative !!! Thankyou !!!!

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Thanks for the link.


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Old 11-07-2011, 04:46 AM   #28
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John, the weak link here is your failure to familiarize yourself with your coach's systems prior to using it. If you're preparing to go full time with it, well, shame on you!

The Dometic frig. has a reputation for being pretty reliable - but it can't do everything for you. When the "check" light came on, it had basically shut itself down - telling you that with the fact that light was on. The fact it started cooling again on 110v would tell most it hasn't failed or quit totally at all. In fact, there's a very good chance there's nothing wrong with it? If the coach hasn't been used in a while, it's not unusual to have to cycle the "gas" funtion a couple of times to get it to light. This tendency disappears totally after the "gas" function has been used a couple of times.

To prevent further equipment "hassles", you need to sit down and start reading and/or asking questions about ANY system you don't fully understand. To try and continue using the coach as you plan without doing that is an invitation to a really bad motorhoming exeperience. This incident may be just the tip of the iceburg/first of many more as you continue learning the hard way? Not trying to put you down, just sayin....
Hi Hicks,

You started your reply with "shame on you". I wish you hadn't. That you'd presume to admonish me like you were my father doesn't bode well for a future friendship. Maybe you just don't care, but I would remind you that we only get one chance to make a good first impression. I hesitate to state the obvious, but just because I've demonstrated my ignorance with one system (frig) doesn't mean I'm not knowledgeable about other more vital systems. I've read my Newmar coach manual as well as my Spartan, Allison and Cummins manuals. I think I've got a pretty decent working knowledge of most of the systems in my motorhome. What I truly lack is experience, but that will come with time, right? I admit to not reading the refrigerator section of the coach manual. "Shame on me." The good news is I'm much more conversant with some of the other systems like the air brakes, air suspension, exhaust brake, Blue Ox Tru-Center steering stabilizer (I've got the prototype for IFS), Banks turbo kit, new roof, heat pumps, HD satellite dish, Spartan IFS versus solid front axle, water separators, fuel/air filters, my ISC engine, Allison tranny, and what it takes to maintain it all in good working order. And I've been very conscientious about fixing and replacing any and all discrepancies. Truth is I can't argue the actual points you made because you were, in fact, correct. I was wrong. I would only suggest you work on your bedside manner a bit if you want to be friends. I don't think that is asking too much. I'm in this for the long haul and I'll be around more and more as I encounter more challenges.

I see you're a "senior member" and that tells me you've been around this stuff for a while now. You've likely forgotten more than most know about this complex subject of Class A motorhomes. And on top of it all maybe you're a mechanical prodigy who can dismantle and repair a frig with a pair of pliers and a roll of duct tape in the dark. I don't know you and your capabilities. But, before you admonish me to read my manuals you just might want to ask if I have already read my manuals. The answer would have been, "yes". I'm a relatively smart and educated person and I'm doing everything I can to avoid as many of the more costly mistakes as I can. I'm just not an expert, yet. I guess I should have made a bigger effort with the frig section of the coach manual, eh?
To my credit I do actively seek help on this and other forums and, actually, if I'm guilty of anything it would be complacency. I mistakenly thought the frig would be a no-brainer. Get out the horse whip. I knew from my research here over the last six months, for instance, that there are limits to how "out of level" the coach could be before it shuts down. I'm also aware now that absorption systems aren't as efficient as compressor types and losing all that food was nobody's mistake, but my own. At this point I'd have to say you are right and that there is likely nothing wrong with my frig. I happily accept responsibility for my mistakes and please know that none of this is a chore for me. I'm having the time of my life while I'm learning and I'm old enough and experienced enough to know if the frig is the most expensive mistake I make then I can count myself among the ranks of the lucky.

What I can't seem to figure out is why my ignorance would make you so angry with me. Actually, I don't think you're really angry. I think you just get tired of novices showing up here complaining about stuff they don't understand. Again, if this is the worst mistake I make...

This is my first RV of any kind. I had not ever even been in one until I bought this Dutch Star. I've been told what a mistake I've made, but I see it differently. I figure if I'm willing to get my foot wet then I might as well go swimming. So, I jumped into the deep end of the pool from the gitgo and very glad I did. It's been a real journey to this point and I've spent a lot of time learning about the systems. Not to mention I've spent an embarrassing amount of money repairing, replacing, refurbishing and upgrading over the last six months I've owned it. I've been 100% proactive in finding and correcting the squawks no matter the cost. My bill with just one service center was 17 pages and over $17k. I'm a huge believer in preventative maintenance and I am never reluctant to spend money to that end. I've not moved into my motorhome yet because I'm trying to create the most perfect motorhome I can during this pre-launch phase while I'm still in my house. I don't know how others cope with big maintenance items while on the road. How much more difficult would it all have been if I had to camp out in a motel? I've spent a total of about 10 days actually using the DSDP and have even dumped sewage, once, with help. The rest of the time it's been in service centers or private mechanic's shops getting work completed. I have driven it about 2,000 miles and nearly killed myself once veering off onto a soft shoulder. Last week I towed my Nissan Pathfinder 4x4 for the first time and I nearly pinched off my index finger getting the tow bar released. I was lucky this time. Just getting the Nissan ready for flat towing has been exhaustive and highly complex. I've been less lucky at other times. I hit a handicapped parking sign at my country club and put a 10" scratch on the side. That was the night I learned about my Dutch Star's turning radius. Then the other night I side swiped a tree while backing into an RV space. That was fun, but on some level I was still lucky because had I backed up another 2 feet I'd have ripped off my driver's side mirror. Another lesson learned. I won't ever again pull into a strange RV park at night. I've been learning the hard way because I don't have anybody to teach me. It's just me and my dog. If you still feel the need to criticize me after reading this reply then feel free. I take good natured conjoling in stride, but personal criticisms normally just roll off my back and get ignored. Just so you know. Helpful suggestions I welcome. I believe we all must accept responsibility for our actions and our words.

Being a pilot for nearly 40 years I do have an extensive background with complex machines. If you think that motorhomes are big holes to toss money into then you really should buy a cabin class piston twin or turbo prop. A close friend of mine says his 54' motor yacht is more expensive to maintain than an airplane, but I'd have to question that one. Generally speaking I'm a quick study. I'm not one to be satisfied with simply inserting a key in the ignition and turning it without first having some working knowledge of the machine. I'm the kind of person who prefers to understand "how/why" things work. Most of the understanding I have of my motorhome today comes from the manuals and from the mechanics I've hired to work on the beast. I've also gleaned lots from these pages. You guys are true expert users and I am most grateful for any help I get.

From the beginning my strategy has been to zero out as many of the systems as I can before I launch on my full-timer career. Zero'ing out is airplane speak for either replacing with new or overhauling a component to an almost new level. It's amazing how much neglect I've found in this motorhome, which makes me wonder what was going through the previous owner's mind during his 9 years of ownership. I've corrected all of the discrepancies he passed along to me and much more. I've not spared any expense on any system and I've had them ALL checked out. I'm not asking for an "atta boy", but would appreciate a little mutual respect because I've accomplished a lot in the last six months. I'm the best thing that has ever happened to this coach. And please know that I take the subject of my motorhome very seriously. Nothing about this is frivolous.

Now that I know the limitations of the absorption style of frig I'll simply do what is necessary to ensure it doesn't fail again, at least with it being my fault. I'm going to call the factory tomorrow and find out from them what I can reasonably expect from a 9 year old Dometic o/u frig with ice maker. I'd feel better with a new frig, but maybe that Amish system is a better alternative over new. The cost looks to be about the same as a new replacement unit. I would hate to throw good money after bad if my system is getting weaker with age. Like everything relating to my DSDP I'll research it to the "Nth" degree and then make an informed decision.

Truth is I bought a "bargain" 2002 with very low miles and bought it from a retired Senior Master Chief from the Navy. I paid $228 for a Camping World mechanic to perform a pre-purchase inspection. Many of the conclusions he drew were in error, so I got off to a rocky start. I accepted the report at face value and figured if anyone would have taken good care of a motorhome it would have been my seller. I was wrong. Little did I know until some time after I took delivery that I'd have to put close to another $30k into it to make it suitable for my purposes. That's a good thing, though. I'm not complaining one bit. When I launch I'll have the advantage and the confidence of knowing exactly what I've got. Right now I would not trade even for something a lot newer, but out of warrantee. I was told that any used motorhome will need at least $10k worth of work. While I missed that mark by a wide margin I don't regret my buying decision at all. I know what I've got.

The only thing really left for me to do is to put a new, better sound system up front. The factory cd player/radio is pitiful and I love my music more than that. So, tomorrow I'm meeting with a media consultant to see what can be done. Then it will be off down the road and starting the process of monitoring systems and adhering to preventative maintenance schedules.

Sorry for the rant. Now feel free to blast away if you must. I'd rather be friends, though.

John
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